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Chinese Tutor - Can Foreigners Adapt to Chinese Culture? -

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Can Foreigners Adapt to Chinese Culture?
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muyongshi -

On July 8th, 2004 at 8:10am Roddy, in this thread, wrote:



Quote:

If anyone wants to reopen the topic, they're welcome. Hopefully it'll be more useful second time
around.

And I want to reopen it

I read through the entire thing and didn't find many useful opinions in it but I was hoping to
have a nice, friendly discussion on the degree to which a foreigner can understand AND assimilate
into Chinese Culture. I personally think it is a moot point to argue the can or can't (heck it's a
moot point to argue anyway) but I think a good discussion would be on the degree of understanding
we can obtain and the degree of assimilation that can be attained.

I was thinking about this because I have a teacher that anytime we sit there not understanding
what she means and (more as a result of disagreement than anything else) she will immediately say
it is because we don't understand culture. Now, in regards to this specific teacher, it has been
proven on many occasions that what her viewpoint is merely opinion and not a cultural viewpoint
(long story) but it raises the interesting question of what is cultural understanding and what is
merely a person's personal viewpoint. Obviously culture plays a part in forming many opinions but
that is not always the case.

So topic reopen for discussion! Have at 'er and please do play nice



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adrianlondon -

I've had quite a few extremely odd conversations with mainland Chinese, both on MSN and in real
life. These tend to be male, in their 20s. Not because they're the strange ones, but because
they're who I wanted to chat with ;)

It seems many people (based on my skewed sample) can't formulate an argument at all, or come up
with an opinion. This must be down to the way they're taught at school.

Once you start to prove someone wrong, or simply open up the possibility that another view point
may exist, they revert to the "this is China, you don't understand" argument, even if the topic at
hand has nothing to do with China at all.

From complex conversations (trying to explain the differences between China/Taiwan and Great
Britain / Northern Ireland) to simple ones (why don't you open the menu and order something your
Mum may not have cooked) it's, well, odd.

I know "odd" isn't a good word to summarise this, but some conversations simply leave me so
confused as to how the other person formulated their idea (I've learnt that they didn't, they just
regurgitate something they were taught even if they can then say something totally contradictory a
few seconds later) that "odd" is the only way I can describe it.

I'm sure they view the fact I use analogies and examples from one scenario to help explain/learn
another equally "odd".










muyongshi -

I do understand the feeling of "odd" as you so adequately put it and I do get this but not all the
time... I think maybe I don't ask why as much as I just "when in rome do as the romans do" but you
mentioned something about education...

Are you saying that you think they were taught/raised up to believe that their cultural (even
though some of the things you mentioned aren't necessarily unique to their culture- why not order
another dish for example...) is non comprehensible to the outside world or that they are just
taught "don't ask" type of attitude?

I mean we have ideas too that aren't formulated in logical thinking and then once we are
confronted with them we realize that (I think many on this forums though just have developed that
skill a tad better than others and we are more willing in said circumstance then to reanalyze and
then adapt our thinking...)










liuzhou -

I do hope you mean a 'moot point' rather than a 'mute' one!










muyongshi -

What did you call me??? Thanks...changed it...










liuzhou -

You only changed one of them!










muyongshi -

Who wrote that twice?! It sure wasn't me...










gato -



Quote:

Once you start to prove someone wrong, or simply open up the possibility that another view point
may exist, they revert to the "this is China, you don't understand" argument, even if the topic at
hand has nothing to do with China at all.

The mainland Chinese education system trains people to be close-minded. People are used to
regurgitating what the teacher says and have a hard time formulating new arguments. This is
particularly true for people who are trained in 文科 (non-math/science/engineering). 理科
students, at least, are encouraged to solve math/physics problems in new ways, but not everyone
can transfer those problem-solving skills to other areas of life.

When they have to explain something they haven't thought about before, they tend to become very
inarticulate. When dealing with foreigner, it's obviously much easier to just say "it's too hard
for you to understand," when what they really mean is that they are not articulate enough to
explain it, particularly in English, but the same problem exists when the conversation is in
Chinese, though to a lesser degree.


Quote:

I know "odd" isn't a good word to summarise this, but some conversations simply leave me so
confused as to how the other person formulated their idea (I've learnt that they didn't, they just
regurgitate something they were taught even if they can then say something totally contradictory a
few seconds later) that "odd" is the only way I can describe it.

The difference between Western thinking and Chinese thinking is clear if you compare Socrates to
Confucius. Socrates focused on basic definition of words and logical connection between arguments
(e.g. syllogism). Confucius's "method" was usually to state that the ancestors did it this way,
therefore we ought to do it this way.










yonglin -

For some reason, i also - just like adrianlondon - usually end up talking with guys in their 20s
on msn/skype/qq. However, I've talked to a few (not many) who were extremely bright and could make
stunningly informed, lucid and coherent arguments on complex topics, including social and
political issues in the Chinese context. Nonetheless, there is little doubt that the education
systems of China and most Western countries are quite different.

As for cultural assimilation, I would say that this is perfectly possible - in theory. However, I
would argue that it requires a few preconditions, which might or might not exist in China.

1. Willingness to assimilate. I think this is the major reason that foreigners in China (as well
as foreigners in a lot of Western countries) never assimilate. Just as argued in the previous
thread, many people from Western countries have the idea that their culture is superior to the
Chinese. After all, their own countries enjoy a higher level of economic development and political
stability, and are probably a major hotspot for innovation and research. "Assimilation" (as
opposed to "integration") essentially requires abandoning your native culture, which many people
are quite unwilling to do, especially if they find the new culture to be inferior. [Personally,
I'd say that the current situation in China is the consequence of a complex series of historical
contingencies, but I know that many people would rather attribute it to Chinese culture as such
(claiming that it is intrinsically "backwards").]

2. Time. It takes about 15-20 years or so before a child is appropriately "culturally
assimilated". Of course, we usually don't use the word "cultural assimilation" to describe kids
growing up, but if you think about raising children, it is essentially the same thing as
assimilating them: i.e., making them understand cultural and communicative subtleties and the
moral values and ideas of their native communities. Naturally, the more different your own culture
is from the culture you wish to assimilate into, the longer it will take. I know of a guy who's
originally German but came to Sweden around 20. When I got to know him (he was then about 28 or 29
or so), he was perfectly assimilated, about to complete his PhD thesis in law at Stockholm
University and complained about the poor Swedish writing skills of Swedish law students. My
estimate would be that it would take at least 10-15 years for a Westerner to assimilate into
Chinese culture, even if the conditions are ideal.

3. Someone willing to assimilate you. If the natives of the new country don't want you to
assimilate, you cannot assimilate. This is simply because in order to be appropriately
indoctrinated by the new culture, you would have to be treated like a native by the natives in the
new country. I think this (in addition to 1) could be a major reason why Westerners assimilate
less readily in China than people of Asian decent. And if you think about it, how many Westerns in
China can - honestly - say that the Chinese treat them just like other Chinese?










dalaowai -

I think that it's impossible for foreigners to truly adapt to Chinese culture due to a few reasons.

- Chinese society doesn't want to allow us to fully integrate into their culture
- We know too much about China's history, therefore we will always "not understand" Chinese culture












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Free Chinese Lesson - I dont really understand this sentence - Page 2 -

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I dont really understand this sentence
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roddy -

Yeah, I guess it's fine. Just looked odd to me at first sight.



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makeboluo -

well, i don't like this chinese sentence. i just wonder why some chinese people like to make a
simple sentence more complicated. it sucks.

""他们在潜意识里都不约而同地认为", here, it simply means "they have a common
impression that Chinese is one of the most...










lokki -

Original sentence:
"他们在潜意识里都不约而同地认为，中国话是世界上最难学的语言之一."

This is a little too advance for me, but I have followed the discussion with interest, looked
up the words, and tried to understand how that sentence is put together.

There is still something about the "不约而同地认为, ..." part that I can't quite get my
mind around, and I have the following questions:

1. I suppose the 地 is pronounced "de" here. Is this correct ?
2. Does it have to be 地 and why ? Would 的 be correct too ? or maybe 得 ?
3. Would "不约而同的认为是" be possible ? If not why?
4. Spontaneously (at my beginner level) it "feels" like there
should be a 是 there ( 认为是 ). Can someone explain to
me why it is not needed.










makeboluo -

1. yes, 地 is pronounced "de" here.
2. yes, it has to be 地, not 的 or 得
if the following word is a noun, we use 的 before the noun; if the following word is a verb, we
use 地; 得 is used after adjective or verb
3. and 4. better no 是 after 认为. i don't know how to explain it, but it's kind of difference
as "they think" and "what they think IS"










muyongshi -

是 would make absolutely no sense in that part of the sentence. Think: "they think chinese is..."
verses "the think is chinese is the hardest...". Further along we already use it. If it feels
weird you are thinking that in English there could be a that. They think that Chinese is...

Make sense?










Quest -



Quote:

4. Spontaneously (at my beginner level) it "feels" like there
should be a 是 there ( 认为是 ). Can someone explain to
me why it is not needed.

The 是 is there, after 中國話。










lokki -



Quote:

we use 的 before the noun; if the following word is a verb, we use 地; 得 is used after
adjective or verb 3. and 4. better no 是 after 认为. i don't know how to explain it, but it's
kind of difference as "they think" and "what they think IS"

Thanks makeboluo for this competent and clear explanation. That cleared up my doubts. What tripped
me up was thinking of 认为 as a noun in this case, but seen as a verb it is very clear that
there should not be a 是 there.












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Chinese School - advice: I like a Chinese guy - Page 5 -

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advice: I like a Chinese guy
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Meng Lelan -



Quote:

Oh, and he finally touched me for more than 0.01th of a second... I was trying to do something but
having trouble, so he helped me, which involved him holding my wrist for about 5 seconds. Ack!
Ack! Ack! I am laughing out loud at how weird that sounds, like I'm 14 and it's the year 1865.

here2learn:

Funny!!! I remember something like the same thing happened to me too, having him touch my hand for
more than one nanosecond and that to me was quite a milestone. Do you email and text him in
Chinese or English?



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here2learn -

Lu,
You said giving me the book means he thinks of me as at least a friend or someone close... that's
the problem!! Everything he's done could be taken as something just a friend would do. I often
feel like he likes me, and some of his behavior shows it, like some body language & some
conversation, but nothing he's done could make me say "Aha! That means he likes me!" I think he's
purposely playing it really safe. As if he thought, "I want to give her something, but not
anything pretty or cute. A book that I know she'd like to study. Good safe choice in case she only
wants to be friends."
Right?!? Of course.
Or, it really was meant to be a token of affection and he's just a very practical person.

meng lelan:


Quote:

Funny!!! I remember something like the same thing happened to me too, having him touch my hand for
more than one nanosecond and that to me was quite a milestone. Do you email and text him in
Chinese or English?

We talk in person almost all in English, though I have to get on him about that because he said he
wants to help me. We email about 50/50, and we txt 50-100% Chinese depending on if I can say it or
not. That's an odd question, why do you ask?

We don't txt much at all, he doesn't seem like the type. He only txt's if there's a good reason,
or if I actually ask him a question. And I feel stupid txt'ing him for no apparent reason. Maybe
because we're a little older?
So email & txt is not every day; maybe 2-3 times a week.










here2learn -



Quote:

At the same time, I have a colleague who confuses me. He's nice and cute (ain't it nice when the
people you spend hours with every day are nice and cute), but has a steady girlfriend. Yet he does
things like stand really close, touch my hand when giving me something, etc. Not sure what to make
of it. Not that I mind :-)

Hmm. For that one I'd just quietly enjoy the little touches and closeness-es and not say anything
or expect him to. If he's got a steady girlfriend he's out of play for now and you don't really
want to cause them to break up if you don't love him or something, right? And you can't know that
from only being colleagues, so if I were you I'd just enjoy the little "flirting" and make sure I
don't do anything to step it up any more notches.

In fact, I've been known to do this: If a guy with a girlfriend seemed to be flirting with me,
especially if I liked it a little but didn't REALLY want the guy, or want him to think I liked
him, I'd say in a quiet, cute, coy little way, "Hey I thought you had a girlfriend!", with a
mischievous smile. This would let him know I'm aware of the status and it shouldn't go further,
but my tone of voice shows I'm flattered and I'm not mad at him. He should just be a good little
boy and not overstep any boundaries.

I did that twice that I remember. Once (though I don't remember clearly) I think the guy just
smiled and didn't say much and continued his tiny little flirty behaviors toward me, which was
really VERY innocent and I didn't mind, it was nice. Another time the guy responded in a way that
suggested he'd cheat on his girlfriend, which suddenly made me feel he was creepy, the way he said
it, and I don't remember what I said but I clearly didn't approve, so he stopped flirting with me.


(I've been cheated on in a pretty hurtful way (multiple times by the same guy) and I won't have
any part of it; I'd never be 'the other woman' - I instantly imagine the girlfriend or wife
sitting home not knowing, and how she'd feel if she knew. I know that feeling and it's so
horrible. I will never help a guy cheat!)










Lu -



Quote:

Hmm. For that one I'd just quietly enjoy the little touches and closeness-es and not say anything
or expect him to. If he's got a steady girlfriend he's out of play for now and you don't really
want to cause them to break up if you don't love him or something, right? And you can't know that
from only being colleagues, so if I were you I'd just enjoy the little "flirting" and make sure I
don't do anything to step it up any more notches.

I agree, and that's what I'm doing, just quietly enjoying it for what it is.



Quote:

Lu,
You said giving me the book means he thinks of me as at least a friend or someone close... that's
the problem!! Everything he's done could be taken as something just a friend would do.

I know... Sorry if I can't say for sure either. Can't look into the guy's head from here, and I
don't really know what advice to give you.










here2learn -

small aside:
MONEY
How often and how hard should I be trying to pay for things? This guy (and others) all say the guy
should pay, etc, and won't let me pay. He makes more money than I do and he knows it, so there's
not that foreign-woman-is-more-successful issue. What do you all think of me paying about 1/4 of
the time, as in roughly every 4th time we go out, or some kind of equivalent?
What if he won't take that much and tries to pay all the time?
How hard should I insist or sneak money into his pocket?
Is it really truly actually insulting if I try too hard or sneak money into his coat pocket (a
good way to try to get to touch him or get playful, haha) or on the contrary, will he think less
of me for not even trying?
Should I be trying every time?
Should I just sit back and let him pay and not say anything except thank you with a sweet smile?
(that's what I've mostly done since he said he "needs to" pay)










imron -



Quote:

What if he won't take that much and tries to pay all the time?

Then try saying something like 多给我点面子，好不好！



Quote:

How hard should I insist or sneak money into his pocket?

Don't sneak money into his pocket. If you want to sneakily pay for a meal, then sometime before
the end of the meal pretend to go the toilet, and go and settle the bill instead. This is quite a
typical way to pay the bill if you really want to pay, but know that someone will give you a hard
time over it. Try this once and watch and see how he responds. From there you should be able to
gauge how often you can get away with a trick like this.










Lu -

I think there are some more threads on this, maybe you can search for them.

Don't sneak money into his pocket, this does not leave him any mianzi at all. If you are going to
insist very hard, fight over the bill and press money into his pocket at all, at least do it in a
way that he can still stop you. But since it appears to be important to him to pay for you both I
wouldn't do this lightly. Imron's advice sounds better.

For me, I wouldn't protest too much every time. I'd pull out my wallet every time to indicate that
I am willing to pay (and if he doesn't stop me I will pay for myself at least). Unless he said
beforehand that he 請s, then I say thank you and that was a delicious meal.

You could also 'pay him back' in other ways, such as buying him gifts or treats.










here2learn -

me:

Quote:

Is it really truly actually insulting if I try too hard or sneak money into his coat pocket (a
good way to try to get to touch him or get playful, haha)

I didn't mean sneak it in without him knowing, I think that would be a little weird, like I'm
implying he truly needs help. Sorry if "sneak" wasn't the right word to use, but I meant the way
Lu said, like a playful way of trying to actually GIVE him the money rather than only saying it or
asking, which feels awkward to me.


The first time we went out he said he heard western women like to pay, or pay half, and before the
bill came he verbally made sure I would not even try, I really felt he was being firm about me not
even trying. He said it shows he's a gentleman, so I have to let him be a gentleman. I thought,
maybe he did this so clearly before the bill came so the waitress, etc, wouldn't see me trying to
pay, or god forbid, be successful at paying. I didn't want to pay anyway, because it was our first
time out and I wanted him to get the message I liked him, not the message I want to be 50/50
friends. So I just sat back and smiled proudly while he paid, and said thank you while still
smiling afterwards, and that's what I've been doing. BUT, I also told him of a particular place I
want to try, and he agreed to let me pay there because it was my idea. But that's only one time,
and there's an excuse for me to pay, and I got a little firm (but friendly) about it myself.










feebie -

In my experience all my Chinese friends insist on paying.
I have become sneaky and rush off pay etc before they have a chance. he he
Changing the subject


I have discovered Chinese guys that like white girls!!!!!!!!!!!!


I have given up on my 6 month unrequited love with that guy
and I have started to look around at all the cute Chinese guys.

Some of them are looking back. woohoo

and some of them are talking about me in Chinese assuming I can't understand. ha ha.
It is so funny.
"why don't you get her phone number" "no she is too young" blah blah

evidence THERE ARE GUYS IN CHINA WHO ACTUALLY LIKE WHITE GIRLS!!!!

shock horror!
amazing

I met the guy I like about 2 weeks ago. I felt a bit depressed on the weekend after meeting him.
But then I felt better during the week as 3 guys tried to chat me up.

1. a teacher "have you got a boyfriend, do you like chinese guys, do you like chinese guys like
me?"

2. a chef, have you got a boyfriend, do you like chinese guys, then he went all shy on me when i
said "yes!"

3. a Korean, asked me out on a date


this teacher is pretty cute (southern guy!) but I am not sure if we are compatible. we are going
to hang out.

and I just put my profile on a Chinese dating site. I thought - no one is going to message me. In
2 days 230 guys sent me a letter. all Chinese, 1 Korean.


So this seems to go against the idea that white girls are the loneliest girls in China.










taryn -

You go feebie!

Why shouldn't they? You're exotic.

It's kind of like how back in high school, everyone wanted to date the one exchange student...












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Learn Chinese - to administrators -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
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daliantli -

Dear Madam/sir:

I'm the director of TLI Dalian Chinese Language Center .May I ask that if I can put our school's
informations on your website.
Our school is one of the eighteen TLI Group branches located worldwide.With TLI’s expertise in
teaching Chinese language to foreign students since 1956, excellent location and facilities, this
new program provides an outstanding cross-cultural environment for students from all over the
world.Class sizes and course content are flexibly offered at TLI Dalian, including different
levels of courses for individual classes and group classes (2 or more students).
Can I put some informations about my school on your website?So that the students who want to study
chinese language in Dalian can know us.I think it's also convenience for them.
I look forward hearing your reply.
Thank you very much!

Best regards!


Dalian TLI
September,8,2007



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roddy -

Dear Dalian TLI,

Yes, you may.

Administrators.










gato -

Maybe you can answer this thread, which mentions TLI Dalian then.

http://www. /showth...ghlight=dalian
Re: Very short courses but efficient?












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Essential Chinese Characters Writing
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karen2 -

吃 eat; food; absorb

Examples:

1）eat; take
吃早饭 eat breakfast
吃奶 take milk from its mother
2）live off

吃父母 live off one’s parents
坐山吃山 live off the mountains where your home is

1） 吃穿 food and clothing
讲究吃穿 be particular about one’s food and clothing
不愁吃穿 not have to worry about food and clothing
2) 吃喝玩乐 seek pleasure
我们难道没有比吃喝玩乐更高的人生目标吗？
Can we have no higher aim in life than mere pleasure-seeking?

3) 吃亏 suffer losses
他吃了自私的亏。
He suffered from his own selfishness.
For more details ,pls visit: http://www.foreignercn.com



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Learn mandarin - I need this translated please thanx -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
I need this translated please thanx
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sayuisan -

http://http://s227.photobucket.com/a...aaaaaaaaaa.jpg


http://http://s227.photobucket.com/a...aaaaaaaaaa.jpg

src="http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd147/sayuisan/00000000000aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg" border="0"
alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket">



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rootfool -

I'm afraid there aren't chinese character.










skylee -

It looks like a very poorly formed 流. It is so poorly formed that the left side of the character
appears on the right of the photo (marked with a circled 2). And the right side of the character
appears on the left of the photo. Whether or not it is indeed 流, it is ugly.










rootfool -



Quote:

it is ugly.














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Pnyin - xing, hui and ke yi - Page 2 -

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xing, hui and ke yi
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






xiovn -

Topic I: Expressing one’s ability (can, be able to, have the ability to do something)

会huì: can, be able to, apply to abilities or skills you have or you learnt through learning.
It emphasizes the abilities or skills you have in a general term.

我会说中文。wǒ huì shuō zhōngwén. I can speak Chinese.
他会说一点儿英文。tā huì shuō yì diǎnr yīngwén. He can speak a little English.
我会开车。wǒ huì kāichē. I can drive. (I know how to drive.)
你会游泳吗？nǐ huì yǒuyǒng ma? Can you swim? (do you know how to swim?)
我不会做饭。wǒ bú huì zuòfàn. I can’t cook. (I don’t know how to cook.)

能Néng: can, be able to do something. The ability you have not through learning. It also
emphasizes at certain time according to the conversation you have, you can do something. In many
cases, it applies with a time phrase as well. It can be replaced by 可以 kěyǐ. It is also used
to express permission or prohibition. (see Topic II.)

请问，( 这车能 )到商场吗？
qǐngwèn, ( zhè chē néng) dào shāngchǎng ma? Can (this bus) get to the Mall? (Excuse me,
does this bus stop at the Mall?)
你能吃几个汉堡？nǐ néng chī jǐ gè hànbǎo? how many hamburger can you eat?
我今天不能去上课。wǒ jīntiān bù néng qù shàngkè. I can’t go to class today.
你能教我开车吗？nǐ néng jiāo wǒ kāichē ma? can you teach me (how to) drive?
我不能告诉你。wǒ bù néng gàosu nǐ. I can’t tell you.
我们八点能到吗?wǒmen 8 diǎn néng dào ma? can we arrive at 8?

The different between会huì and 能Néng is: e.g.:
我会开车，但是我现在不能开车。wǒ huì kāichē, dànshi wǒ xiànzài bùnéng
kāichē.
I can drive, but now I can’t drive. (because I just had one bottle of wine, or I don’t have a
license now…)

1.
A: 你会不会开车？nǐ huì bú huì kāi chē?
B: 会一点儿。huì yì diǎnr.
A: 你能教我吗？nǐ néng jiāo wǒ ma?
B: 好吧！hǎo ba.
2.
A: “love”中文怎么说？”love” zhōngwén zěnme shuō?
B: 对不起，我也不会。duì bù qǐ, wǒ yě bú huì.
3.
A: 请问，这个字怎么写？qǐngwèn, zhè gè zì zěnme xiě?
B: 对不起，我也不会，你问老师吧。duì bù qǐ, wǒ yě bú huì. nǐ wèn lǎoshī
ba.
4. A: 对不起，你能再说一遍吗？duì bù qǐ, nǐ néng zài shuō yí biàn ma?
B: 好。Hǎo.
Topic II: Expressing permission or prohibition ( can, may, have the permission / prohibition or be
allowed/ forbidden to do something)

能Néng & 可以 kěyǐ: the two can replace each other in most of the cases.

我能用一下你的书吗？
wǒ néng yòng yí xià nǐde shū ma? can I use your book?
上课不能吃东西。
shàngkè bù néng chī dōngxi. you can’t eat (something) in class. (eating is not allowed in
class)
可以认识一下吗？kě yǐ rènshi yí xià ma? may I know you?
可以吸烟吗？kěyǐ xīyān ma? can I smoke? (is smoking allowed)



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HSK - CSC Scholarship Support Group - Page 7 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
CSC Scholarship Support Group
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Page 7 of 17 First < 56 7 89 > »






bottledpoetry -

I nominate that we change the name of this thread to CSC Scholarship support group



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extrapages -



Quote:

I'm a US citizen and I'm applying to for th CSC scholarship as language student....and I seem to
be running into problems in finding a "guarantor "as well. Can this be an organization or an
individual?

please read through the posts. i know its a lot, and some of it wont be applicable for your
specific situation, but if you're really serious about applying for this scholarship, youd do the
research and sift through the information already available. if you read this thread, youd know
already that you can use both an organization and an individual - and that ive offered to be
guarantors for a few people - and you wouldnt have asked this question, and you couldve saved
yourself from looking like a totally confused, clueless kid.



Quote:

A few other questions that are popping up:
- Just wanted to confirm: if I'm applying as a language student, I only need to specify the name
or organization that is recommending me for the scholarship? No additional attachments? What
"organizations" does the Chinese government deem worthy of giving such recommendations?

no additional attachments are necessary... but i (and a few others in this thread who applied) had
the recommending organization write an official letter of support - basically a letter with their
letterhead, formal heading, signature from the head honcho - saying that they highly recommend
me/us, they think im/we're fully capable of going to china and learning chinese, and that they
like me/us - that the chinese government would be doing the right thing by giving me/us the CSC
schlarship.

organizations that the chinese government would deem worthy would be schools/institutes of
education and non-political and non-religious organizations.



Quote:

- Is My OfficeMax Printer Paper 'Official' Enough?
As far as formal submission goes, just wanted to confirm that the application that I print off my
computer, which will be on "normal paper" will be sufficient? (i've read a few people running into
problems because they didn't submit it on the official application paper? who knows.)

and you've read this where, exactly?

no, you actually need this very specific paper NASA-approved, russian-inspected, kyrgystan-made,
australia-processed, south african tree-grown, argentina-packed specially created for the CSC
application paper that smells like apple sauce and is a light shade of crayola forest green.

regular printer paper is fine.



Quote:

- Describe your "study plan."
I wasn't sure if this was supposed to be your standard "short essay" describing why i'm such a
"great student", and my goals/intentions of study-- or is this supposed to be just simply a "cut
and dry" factual plan of what I plan to achieve and when i plan to achieve it? All the CSC
websites don't seem to make a big deal out this at all---"200 words or less", but then on the
application they suggest attaching an entire separate page? I'm still toying with how to write
this...I mean I don't want to write like 600 words and piss them off, but i don't want to do the
minimum either and lose the scholarship entirely. Any advice from anyone who won the scholarship?
How simplistic is this section supposed to be...especially from language student perspective??

you write your 200 words or less on a separate sheet of paper - not on the application itself. and
this 200 words or less should be kept at 200 words or less because that's what they asked for.
although i HIGHLY recommend THOROUGHLY reading the application directions because it says NO LESS
THAN 200 words, not 200 words or less.
i remember i wrote a freaking book basically on why and how im so awesome, why all the
goals/intentions of study i have are so awesome, and why the chinese government would be making a
great investment in me if they gave me the scholarship.



Quote:

- Additional Supporting Attachments...Employment?
In regards to additional documentation needed, I am also curious as to if there are additional
supporting documents needed for this? I just want to make sure to get all documents that require
notarization, completed by the deadline.

just follow the directions: diploma, transcript, the medical form and whatever else they ask for
notarized. BUT they ask for the original and a copy of the entire application
i think my original had notarized copies of whatever they asked - and then i got a notarized copy
of THE WHOLE APPLICATION and all supporting documents as the second copy to send.



Quote:

- Admissions Letter Attachment.
In terms of "attaching an admissions letter," I was told that this is not mandatory, (seeing as
the school I pick is entirely dependent on the scholarship). I am told that I can list my top
three choices on the scholarship application without additional admission letters...and things are
just supposed to "carry on" from there? I'll be applying for a full scholarship--and was wondering
if i'll have a better chance if I apply beforehand? (on the other end, I wasn't sure if my chances
would lessen if the three I happened to specify already had their scholarship quotas filled or
something...)

i really dont want to answer this one... because i answered every question in different posts
throughout this thread. but ill do it anyway. you only attach an admissions letter if you already
applied beforehand. i highly recommend that you DO NOT apply yourself because it will cause a lot
of confusion - you will end up having registered twice at the school (one by yourself, another by
the csc) and youll have to straighten it all out by proving that they are both you and that you
want to nullify the one YOU did - because only the one that the csc created can be used if you
want to receive the scholarship.

and as stated before, things just "carry on" from there. the csc people will register for you and
take care of EVERYTHING.

honestly, the chances of anything and everything are totally unknown to us... but all i know from
personal experience is that if you apply on your own, youre going to have to undo it all.



Quote:

- Medical Exam.
As far as the physical exam, can't this be done after the application is submitted, I find out if
I received the scholarship, and am accepted to the university? Also, in terms of the medical exam
itself, can I just take the official form to my family doctor and get an exam there? Or must this
be done by a Chinese authority or a special "approved" doctor in a specific office?

READ THE POSTS PLEASE. you MUST complete the physical exam when you apply - because if you apply
and get the scholarship, the csc will also take care of your visa application - which requires the
physical exam. if you dont send it, you could get the scholarship and then be disqualified because
you didnt send all the information they required you to send and they couldnt get your visa for
you. in which case, theyll just dump your application.

i went to an "approved" clinic in korea (because thats where i was at the time i applied)... but i
dont know if there are "approved" clinics in the states. almost everyone i know that applied
(including the ones that got the scholarship) just went to their family doctor.



Quote:

- Full or Partial.
Assuming I don't get the full scholarship...am I automatically eligible for the partial?

i dont know. i wondered this, too.. but no one had an answer.
just apply for the full and hope you get it.










extrapages -

CAN WE GET A MODERATOR IN HERE PLEASE?

we want to
1. change the name of this thread as bottled poetry suggested
2. get a sticky note for the top of this thread with basic information and links for the csc
scholarship because IM SICK OF ANSWERING THE SAME QUESTIONS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
3. move this thread out of "studying chinese in beijing" because it can apply to people studying
anywhere in china.

please come soon.










Chrissy88 -

Extrapages, I appreciate the quick response, you're amazing.

Just to clarify: I agree with you entirely that "there is no point of actually filling out the
application before finding out where the hell you're going to send it." I have literally zero
intention of sending scholarship applications to any organization that is maybe an authority.
After jumping hoops for the past 4 days, having consulates not answer the phone, having emails
answered from not JUST one consulate, but three (o- and including the american embassy in
china)...I've opted to try my luck with the mighty and wendell@ce.cn

PLEASE, HELP ME!












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Chinese Tutor - ABC school? anyone!!! -

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ABC school? anyone!!!
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nirvanaworld -

Do any one can suggest me about this school and its background?? Working in this school... any
Experience??



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Study Chinese - Help with pronunciation of my name and daughter -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Help with pronunciation of my name and daughter
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larry.j.summers -

How do you say "Larry Summers" in Chinese?



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skylee -

夏 瘌痢 (Xia Lali) is one way of saying it. Here Summers is translated to mean the season
summer (Xia) and put in front according to the convention of Chinese names, whereas Larry is
transliterated.

Other options include 夏拉利 (Xia Lali, same pronunciation as the one above but written in
different Chinese characters), 拉利森馬斯 (Lali Senmasi), etc.

PS - don't be offended when you find out what the first name means.












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Learning Mandarin - speakgoodchinese - Page 4 -

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roddy -

Skinkie, I've toyed with the idea of running linux as dual boot a couple of times, and have gone
as far as getting damn small linux running within windows. This has got me thinking about doing so
again.

Is there any linux version which will come with everything needed to run SGC that I can use? Or
would I just need to download any version and then compile in () the extras?

I've got to say that what you've done looks very promising - I've seen similar stuff as part of
other programs, but this is the first specifically for Chinese learning, and free. Just wish I
could try it out. Perhaps you could compromise your open source principals and just get at least
one Windows developer?



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Skinkie -

Again: how do you Quote on this forum?


... ok something very interesting. Someone on the Dutch Forum gathering.tweakers.net suggested
that the failure of WinXP could have to do with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Execution_Prevention if some computer techies with problems
could look if this is enabled. I'm very happy to hear about it!






Quote:

Is there any linux version which will come with everything needed to run SGC that I can use? Or
would I just need to download any version and then compile in () the extras?

Our build environment is Gentoo Linux. (Combined with hand build Win32 components.) Except for two
things everything is in there:
- libzip (I can provide you an ebuild for it)
- praat (to create a praat .so / .dll you need some manual labor, which is in the HOWTO)



Quote:

I've got to say that what you've done looks very promising - I've seen similar stuff as part of
other programs, but this is the first specifically for Chinese learning, and free. Just wish I
could try it out. Perhaps you could compromise your open source principals and just get at least
one Windows developer?

The project is technically finished (lets say: there is no money anymore, and everything that is
still been done, is because we believe that there are enough users to benefit from it. Hey we are
uni people ;)) If someone with specific windows skills is interested to join or want to take a
look *sure*.










roddy -

Tried adding DEP exclusions for both SGC and Singleword - didn't make any difference unfortunately.

There's no one-click quote button, scroll down below the reply box to see a list of recent posts
to copy and paste from if necessary. See also the button for quick quote tags.

i might have a look at getting this working on Linux, but it won't be soon . . .










imron -

If you want to try Linux, try downloading one of the Ubuntu live cds. Pop in the CD and reboot and
it will load up into Linux (assuming you have enabled your computer to boot from the CD). Have a
look around, see if you like it and that everything works, and if so then proceed with the
install. Personally I prefer KDE over Gnome, so you might want to check out Kubuntu instead.










imron -



Quote:

Again: how do you Quote on this forum?

There's a little button in between the picture and the # that looks like a speech bubble that will
add quote tags to any piece of selected text. Alternatively, you can add them yourself using [
QUOTE ] and [ /QUOTE ] (minus the spaces before/after the [ ] )










Skinkie -

It is not very smart to advertise Ubuntu, if a Ubuntu user has problems with GTK+.










newyorkeric -

I must be lucky because I have the program running on three different PCs, two in the US and one
in Singapore. Has anyone else gotten it to work?










roddy -

I got it functioning ( I think, haven't actually tested it, but the GUI starts up) on a desktop
PC. I'd compare the two machines to see what the difference might be, but I don't know where to
start.










Skinkie -

Thanks very much Roddy










imron -



Quote:

It is not very smart to advertise Ubuntu, if a Ubuntu user has problems with GTK+.

Actually, if someone wants to try Linux this distribution is going to be one of the easiest to
take for a spin, and presumably the problem your software has with Ubuntu will be solved at some
point.












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Chinese Class - Secret 不能說的秘密 -

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Secret 不能說的秘密
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skylee -

I saw this film today. It is Jay Chou's debut as director. There is nothing special about the
film, not the story, not the acting, not the images; but I like it immensely. It is such an
ordinary film, but at the same time very likeable. I think it has to do with the chemistry between
Chou and the leading actress, and their playing the piano throughout the film. And the ending is
'deadly' romantic.

I think Chou always looks very vulnerable, both in this film and in 黃金甲.

Watching this film I kept saying to myself, "嘩周杰倫真不得了". He plays a highschool
student quite convincingly IMHO. And the film has that typical sweet and pure Taiwan feel. (This
is my Taiwan impression - 純純的, 土土的.）And when the credits began to roll, the girl
sitting next to me said to her friend in mandarin, "好好看喔" (oh even in HK there are
mandarin speakers everywhere). And I agree with her.

I am glad that I've seen this film. Films like this make cinema-going worthwhile. Recommended.

Trailer -> http://202.85.147.176/broadcast/trai...ailer1.mpg.WMV





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Luobot -

Looks like a good recommendation. I already cried at the end of the trailer. 好好看喔。










Lu -

I must say I had very, very low expectations of this movie. Jay Chou is a singer, and he does sing
really well, but he is not that great an actor. He did good in Initial D, but in 黃金甲 he was
mostly Jay dressed up in old armor. And now he's going to direct? Can't be good.
But with this recommendation, perhaps I'll go see this movie.










lpascoe -

That's interesting, I felt the complete opposite to Lu. I thought Initial D was dead boring and
Jay's acting was disappointing or at least nothing special (perhaps evidence that musicians should
stick to what they are good at).
I'd decided not to bother seeing 黃金甲 to avoid further disappointment but my housemate rented
it and after watching it, I thought Jay actually did a good job. In anycase my issues with the
movie had nothing to do with Jay.
I haven't seen 不能說的秘密 yet, but I'm really curious to see how he is as a director.
Honestly... musician, actor, director... the man has far too much energy for his own good.










skylee -

Has nobody else seen this film?










simonlaing -

Transformers was sold out again, And my girlfriend and I saw it.

She cried in the middle of it , but she cries at lots of movies. I thought the mystery and
mystique about it was the best part of the movie, The intergration of the piano playing to was
cool as well.
I wanted more piano duels and other types of things that could be good.
Plus he never played rugby with his "friends"

The twist toward the end was good, plus the action of him sneaking into the building that was
about to be demolished had some good special effects.

The bicycle riding romance reminded me of another old Hong kong love story that was good . I
forgot the name but it was singer turned movie star and she was from Guangzhou and sold tapes of a
particular singer.
I remember the riding in the rain. Also Bejing bicycle as some romance with the bicycle as well I
think.

Also Jay Mandarin was quite standard, on some of his CD's his words are hard to catch if you don't
have the lyrics in front of you. (Chinese people have confirmed it is not just me).

Worth seeing in the cinema I think.
Nice pick Skylee, and other recommendations?
have fun,
SImon










calibre2001 -

What are the chinese characters of the other actress who likes Jay alot (not Kwan Lun-Mei)? Her
name is Alice Tseng Kai-Xuan but I can't read the chinese characters properly. It's there in the
poster below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...shuodemimi.jpg










skylee -

曾愷玹










lpascoe -

I finally got around to seeing this movie and I really liked it.

Nicely shot and touching. The "action" sequence was a bit melodramatic, but I confess (like a true
soap addict) I shed tears, which was unfortunate because my make up wasn't tear proof. C'est la
vie.

Don't know what anybody else thinks about this, but I feel like Jay portrays pretty much the same
character in each of his films. I'm not really complaining because I found him extremely likeable
and sweet in this movie. In fact I found the whole cast likeable, especially his dad, who was a
bit of a nutter and very funny. And I think Skylee was right, the chemistry between the leads is
good.

I know it is probably a bit late to say this now, but I'd recommend seeing it on the big screen.
Two thumbs up.










shanghaikai -

I just saw this movie and I loved it. It was a bit slow-going at first (mostly because I wasn't
paying attention from posting on these forums) but then I caught the plot and it alone was
interesting enough for me to give it more attention.

I personally don't think Jay Chou is a great actor and seems to only have one look about him, all
the freaking time. Nicholas Cage is a better actor, and that isn't saying much. However, he does
fit certain roles well, this being one of them and another being that of Takumi in Initial D.
However, Intial D The Movie was downright awful. It wasn't because of Jay but because it was
simply just a really lousy movie and plot. Curse of the Golden Flower wasn't too hot either. Jay
was his monotone self which didn't lend well to making his character great but I didn't feel the
movie was great either. So they both kinda sucked.

Anyway, loved the movie. Great song too. Definitely recommend. I even want to buy it.












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HSK Exam - Requirements for teaching in China (and other general things) - Page 3 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
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Requirements for teaching in China (and other general things)
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Rincewind -

My school has employed people with only a TESL cert before. We found them to be good teachers who
made creative classes. Wouldn't be a problem for us as far as bureaucracy. Some people will look
down on you if you are not old enough. Our TESL certified teacher was only 18 going 19. She was
described to the parents of the children as a 25 year old American. Don't know if the parents
bought that or not. (I didn't)



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Likia -

I am 21, and will be 22 by the time i finish with my AA Degree, and TEFL Certificate. So age isn't
a problem, most people I run into think that I am older yet--my biggest worry is not being able to
get a visa to teach because I don't have a BA yet. I have wanted to go over and teach for a long
time now, and a lot of people are saying that a BA is almost mandatory, I would hate to get over
there and not be able to procure a job. However like I said I will have my AA Degree, and a TEFL
Certificate by the end of the Fall.










nomad -

Get on Dave's Cafe and the other links for jobs in China. I would start applying to language
schools / training colleges.... now and see if you get any offers with your AA degree.

I would say that you need a BA to get a Z-visa, but I've heard of people getting jobs with Z-visas
without any experience or qualifications.












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Pnyin - I need to choose a Chinese name, help??? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
I need to choose a Chinese name, help???
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monishka -

Hello,

I'm from Mexico City and I'm leaving soon to study Mandarin in Taipei. I need a Chinese name for
some of my documents (for the scholarship, mainly). I am not looking for a "translation" of my
name, I would like something new. I have been looking for online resources, but haven't been very
successful. I was wondering if you could suggest common names for girls that I could use. I would
like something related to peace or to heavenly bodies, like moon or star. Thanks for your help,

Monica



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rootfool -

how about 耿素娥geng3 su4 e2?
it comes from “桂华流瓦，纤云散，耿耿素娥欲下(周邦彦)”。“素娥” is an
angel who lived in the moon,named "嫦娥chang2e2" ,and she is very beautiful in chinese mythology.

this name also contains this meaning:"The angel name "嫦娥" didn't come on earth(actually she
can't in the myth),but I do."










skylee -

Consider 皎皎 (Jiaojiao). The term is used to describe the moon, and it appears in at least two
very famous poems.

A korean actress who was really hot a few years ago is actually called 銀河 (Yinhe / milky way).










Lu -

Sexuologist 李銀河 has the same name.










semantic nuance -

How about 靜月 (Silent Moon)?










skylee -

Moon, moon, milky way, moon.

Some more for the moon -

望舒 (Wangshu) - goddess who controls the moon
纖阿(Xian'e) - another name for Wangshu (I really like this one)

A constellation -

紫微 (Ziwei) - well, a constellation

Oh but you want a common girl's name. Perhaps these would do -

彩雲 (Caiyun, colourful clouds)
曉月 (Xiaoyue, moon at dawn)
和平 (Heping, peace)
安寧 (Anning, peaceful)










monishka -

Wow! Those were fast answers! Thanks a lot for your help. I like most of the suggestions... the
difficult part will be to choose just one. I´ll let you know which one I finally chose (if you're
curious). And if you have any other ideas, I'd love to hear, well read, them.

oh and I have a question, how would you pronounce silent moon 靜月?

thanks again,

Monica










semantic nuance -

靜 jing4 月 yue4.












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roddy -

Just carried out a quick upgrade of the forums software. Everything should be working fine, but if
you spot any problems please let us know.



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roddy -

Except any databases encountering any problems up until now - the problem was me . . .












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Free Chinese Lesson - 1000 CNY Challenge: How many characters needed to read Chinese? - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
1000 CNY Challenge: How many characters needed to read Chinese?
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roddy -



Quote:


Originally Posted by ChineseSpeaker

Now you know how many Chinese characters you should learn as a simple outsider.


What about those of us who don't consider ourselves simple?

I'm sure I've said this before on here, but I'm going to say it again. Count the number of words
you know, and you might have a useful figure. The number of characters you know is only useful
insofar as it allegedly and indirectly measures the number of words you know.



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simonlaing -

Hey Guys,

How do you know how many characters you have learned? I remember when I was studying a lot they
said if you can handle this class you have about 2000 character mastery, but I haven't had a
course like that for a while though I am still learning.

Is there some way of measuring your character rate? I am working in a translation company so I
guess I am exempt, but my Friend James who started a dog shop speaks a lot of chinese.
The other thing is though he interacts with people about dogs and Mahjong, and stuff on TV all
which can be talked about with decent but not extensive vocabulary.
He also didn't test well on the HSK and got a 5 would he be a candidate.
(Anyone read Modern Express, 现代快报 newspaper, on K7 there is an article on him.)

But it is probably a different world for us outside of BJ and Shanghai, finding a job outside of
teaching where you don't have to speak chinese 95% of the time is difficult.

Have fun,
Simon

P.S. The was a point around 2500 probably when I was able to start guessing at the meaning of
characters and their sound (though the tone was off) . You have a word that means something device
and it has a huo in it you know it has something to to do with fire and from the context and guess
at the meaning. Lots of radicals, roof, water, emotion and others can help you guess this way .
And with redundant chinese half the time it is the exact same meaning as the second part of the
word.










Lu -



Quote:

My belief is that in the process of increasing your vocabulary so that you can pass the challenge,
you will, by default, also gradually be learning characters.

I am a professional translator. I have no idea how many characters I know, and don't really care
either. I do not understand everything I read right away, but I think I look up words at least 4
times as much as characters. In other words, I know almost all the characters I see, but I see
many words I don't know.
I strongly disagree with you that learning characters automatically implies learning words, and
because I think, like imron and others, that the key to fluent reading is words, not characters, I
think this challenge of yours is rather pointless.










gougou -



Quote:

How do you know how many characters you have learned?

I learn with a little computer program I wrote, it keeps track of the number of characters I know
(and yes, that function was included purely for self-gratification!)










sthubbar -

gougou - I think your time in Moscow would fall under exception #1. Were you living a professional
existence? I guess maybe you had a travel book and that book was in a language other than Russian.
To meet this challenge, if you had such a travel book for advise it would be in Russian. We are
not asking if a person can survive in a foreign country, I am surviving in China just fine, I just
can't read Chinese.

Roddy - I'm going to go even further out on the limb and say that knowing 4000 Hanzi is not only
necessary to read Chinese but it guarantees one can read Chinese. What I mean is that I informally
challenge anyone to find a person that knows 4000 Hanzi and does not know how to read. The sheer
magnitude of achieving that level guarantees that the individual has also learned vocabulary along
the way.

Lu - I understand you think this challenge is ridiculous. My purpose it to dispel the myth that
lower numbers of characters will allow a person to read Chinese. I don't know your background, but
you might fall under exception #2. What I mean is if you were to take a vacation would you use a
travel book all in Hanzi to plan your trip?

simonlaing - I worded the "excluded" section poorly. I have reworded it so hopefully you don't
think you are excluded. BTW, we are strictly taking about reading, not one's ability to speak.










gougou -



Quote:

I should be around 3000 characters now (maybe below, will let you know when I get home).

OK, just checked. My database has 2749 characters for a total of 6666 words. I am certain that I
know much more words than this, as by now I don't put all new words in there anymore, but the
character should be pretty exact.

Again, no problems reading Chinese - on the character side, that is.


(Even though given the number of posts that I have read about "how many characters" these days, I
should be below 95% Chinese by now... )










sthubbar -

gougou, great work on all those character and words.

The following quote typifies what I mean by "can read Chinese."

here heifeng said:


Quote:

Hmm..
Basically, (other then when I go online) almost everything that I read is in Chinese, so
definitely reading in general is helpful and will help out with vocabulary quite a bit.

A couple of other things you might be able to clarify:

1) Is 95% of the written material you see on a daily basis in Characters?

2) If you were planning a trip to say Egypt, would you, or better yet have you, used only Hanzi
websites to book plane tickets, hotels, tours, etc. Calling a travel agent does not count because
I can do that right now, that does not require reading. When you plan your trip and go to Egypt
are you able to ditch the Lonely Planet and only use Hanzi guide books?

3) If you are sick, are you confident to read medicine bottles when your life depends on it. (BTW,
this test is not extreme. I have been sick a couple of time since being in China, once where I
thought I might need surgery. I alway went to 100% Chinese speaking hospitals and had no problems
getting by or fearing for my safety. Though, I would not trust myself to read a medicine bottle.)










skylee -



Quote:

When you plan your trip and go to Egypt are you able to ditch the Lonely Planet and only use Hanzi
guide books?

I am Chinese but I can't do that. Is there a Hanzi (what a way to call Chinese btw) guide book out
there that is better than Lonely Planet? Would love to know about it.










gato -



Quote:

If you were planning a trip to say Egypt

It'd be realistic to talk about a tour guide to a Chinese city, a guide to Chengdu, HK, or Taipei,
for example.


Quote:

If you are sick, are you confident to read medicine bottles when your life depends on it.

Your example is a little extreme. If it involves a life and death decision, I wouldn't necessarily
trust my own medical judgment, whether the label's in English or Chinese. But it's for a cold
medication or a headache, yes, it's simple enough to read the labels and find what's appropriate.










gougou -



Quote:

1) Is 95% of the written material you see on a daily basis in Characters?

2) If you were planning a trip to say Egypt, would you, or better yet have you, used only Hanzi
websites to book plane tickets, hotels, tours, etc. Calling a travel agent does not count because
I can do that right now, that does not require reading. When you plan your trip and go to Egypt
are you able to ditch the Lonely Planet and only use Hanzi guide books?

3) If you are sick, are you confident to read medicine bottles when your life depends on it. (BTW,
this test is not extreme. I have been sick a couple of time since being in China, once where I
thought I might need surgery. I alway went to 100% Chinese speaking hospitals and had no problems
getting by or fearing for my safety. Though, I would not trust myself to read a medicine bottle.)

1) No. When I refused to read the English paper my boss gave me because of a challenge on the
internet, she threatened to fire me, so I had to give in.

2) I book all my trips through ctrip (for which I need a little more than 20 characters, BTW). And
I read up on the cities online - in Chinese.

3) I have a huge stack of semi-used up medicine in my cupboard, out of which I so far always have
been able to find the appropriate one (granted, I only have to distinguish between throat and
stomach, so that doesn't take too many characters either).


I think that your limit is way too high; around 2,500 characters should be enough for all but the
highly specialized texts. Maybe those statistics that you are trying to disprove are not so wrong
after all.












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