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Who said Beijing Sucks?
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1on1Mandarin -

In response to the numerous posts about Beijing being a horrible place to learn the language and
live, I have to set the record straight:

1) The accents. I have lived in China for over 4 years now (all in Beijing), studied Chinese for
nearly 8 years and have travelled to many different cities in China for business. Generally
speaking, I would say that I have more experience and language abilities with interacting with
real locals in these areas than most foreigners in China. Of all the places that I have been, I
would say that Beijing is still the best suited for foreigners. While there are places in the
North East like Harbin and Dalian, where the people speak Putonghua, they still have accents, and
some, like Dalian even have their own dialect.

If people say that beijing people have heavy "er" accents, then they are correct. But to say that
EVERYONE in Beijing has a beijing accent, then I would have to say that most of these opinions are
based off of experience with cab drivers, older beijingers, store owners, etc. To be honest with
you, Beijing is the best place to learn Chinese because EVERYONE speaks standard Mandarin. You
don't have to deal with different dialects, which in many cases sound like a completely different
language! If you interact with educated people and professionals you will have no problem.
Obviously, if you spend all of your time is the taxis and alleys (Hutong), then you will encounter
difficulties.

Harbin has relatively standard Mandarin, but Harbin is like a very small run down town. The last
time I went there, about 1.5 years ago, they didn't even have a starbucks. Dalian, now, is a
little bit better on the modern aspect, but the locals pretty much speak have a psuedo-dialect
(half mandarin, half Dalianese).

You are going to find some great programs available in smaller cities like Harbin, Hangzhou,
Dalian, etc. But you will still have a more difficult time understanding the common local speaking
to you because virtually everywhere in China has their own dialect. You only have to deal with an
"er" accent in Beijing.

2) The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't? China is the most
populated country in the world!

3) Too many foreingers. This can also be a good thing. Let me put it like this: sometimes you need
some Americana. Having a large foreign network in the city you live in makes your transition much
more pleasant. You have loads of foreign food, activities, organizations, healthcare, schools,
music. Basically everything you would want in your home country you could probably find here in
Beijing. A great example is with all the Europeans and their cheese and wine, granted not the
greatest, but if you have the money you can find it. Sometimes I just want an american breakfast
so I just go to Grandma's Kitchen. I think you get my point. With exception for Shanghai, you're
gonna have very, very few options elsewhere.

4) Hard to get around. Use the subways.

5) Too expensive. Beijing can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. If you find the right
places rent can still be quite cheap. Now if you are comparing Beijing to less modern cities in
China, yes, Beijing is more expensive, but there are also more extra curricular benefits
available. This isn't Thailand, but it also isn't Tokyo. For a westerner, Beijing is still cheap.

6) Longterm development. Now if you are looking to stay in China for not only language but
possible employment, I cannot emphasize this enough. Contacts in China is everything! Beijing and
Shanghai are the two best places in China for that. In Shanghai, however, you have to deal with
Shanghainese, which is a completely different dialect like Cantonese. Beijing is full of not only
foreigners, but also most business in China has to go through Beijing somehow or another because
it is the capital; so if you look, you can find excellent Beijing contacts that can help you in
other places in China.

Generally speaking, Beijing is a very international city, that is very difficult to find almost
anywhere in the world. How international, you ask? Some cab companies are providing English
classes for their drivers so that they can provide better service for the upcoming Olympics. You
are not going to find a better place in China to study the language and to work on your longterm
development at the same time. Simply put, having the options available is always a plus. I don't
want to have to live in a place where it is virtually impossible to find a cup of coffee.

Now who said Beijing sucks?



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wannabeafreak -

I went to Beijing before and I think its a very dirty city. I prefer nice and clean Hong Kong.










gato -



Quote:

2) The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't? China is the most
populated country in the world!
4) Hard to get around. Use the subways.

I think people were referring to physical size, not population size. Number 2 and 4 go together.
The subway doesn't go to a lot of places.










roddy -

True, if you can't cope without Starbucks, easy access to a range of Western food, close proximity
to foreigners, international schools and hospitals and cheese and wine tastings, then Beijing is
probably your only option. Everybody else has a wider range of choices though.

Smaller cities are less viable long-term options due to a relative lack of long-term
opportunities, but for a six month to two year stay to study or work, they can be great. I spent a
year in that 'very small run down town' Harbin, and had a fantastic time - great people (and the
educated, professional people everywhere are capable of speaking standard Chinese), fantastic
eating, 'western' stuff available if necessary - just like any number of other cities. And a year
or two somewhere provincial will mean you both appreciate the amenities of a bigger city, and know
how easily you can manage without them.

Beijing doesn't suck - it might be easier to wind up spending all your money and time on doing
'foreign' stuff, which the majority of people on here aren't intending to do, but that's as much
to do with willpower as the city itself. However, the other options are hardly as bleak as you
paint them. Having spent two years in provincial cities (Wuxi, Harbin) and four in Beijing, I'd
query how much a succession of business trips would inform you about what it would be like to
spend a year there studying or working.










1on1Mandarin -

Roddy,

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that smaller (provincial) cities are inferior, nor am I
discounting their effectiveness for language learners. I am sure that many people, like yourself,
have wonderful experiences. It bothers me, however, when I hear people complaining about
"er"-factor and expenses in Beijing. In China, you're gonna have to either deal with accents or
deal with dialects; personally, I would prefer the former, which, quite honestly, is something you
will deal with anywhere. Students should understand, however, that there is probably more standard
putonghua opportunities in Beijing than any city in China, and the world for that matter.

To Gato: The geographical size of a city is generally determined by its population. #4. yes, the
subways don't go everywhere, but a combo of subways and cabs can get you to many places.










liuzhou -



Quote:

I would say that I have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals
in these areas than most foreigners in China.

Congratulations! Give yourself a medal.



Quote:

sometimes you need some Americana.

It might come to you as some surprise, but not all "foreigners" are American.










wushijiao -



Quote:

It might come to you as some surprise, but not all "foreigners" are American.

Aha, but not all Americana is consumed by Americans!










Qiuyue -



Quote:

The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't?

There are plenty of them, plenty. You just have to go outside Beijing to discover them



Quote:

Contacts in China is everything! Beijing and Shanghai are the two best places in China for that.

Perhaps if you wanna work in Beijing or Shanghai, bur not so much if you wanna work in Jinan,
Guangdong, Ningbo or somewhere else. Then that´s where u need your contacts!



Quote:

True, if you can't cope without Starbucks, easy access to a range of Western food, close proximity
to foreigners, international schools and hospitals and cheese and wine tastings, then Beijing is
probably your only option

Certainly not your only option! Have u heard of Shanghai? Or Hangzhou? Or HK?










liuzhou -



Quote:

Beijing is the best place to learn Chinese because EVERYONE speaks standard Mandarin.



Quote:

Obviously, if you spend all of your time is the taxis and alleys (Hutong), then you will encounter
difficulties.

Isn't that somewhat contradictory or are you telling us not to mix with the lower classes?

But of course, you

Quote:

have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals in these areas than
most foreigners in China.

Sorry I'm too stupid and inexperienced to understand (despite having been here 10 years, living in
different places.)










yonitabonita -



Quote:

Isn't that somewhat contradictory or are you telling us not to mix with the lower classes?

But of course, you
Quote:
have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals in these areas than
most foreigners in China.

Sorry I'm too stupid and inexperienced to understand (despite having been here 10 years, living in
different places.)

Not really playing fair to put words in the OP's mouth. I can see no intention to make any sort of
comment on 'the lower classes'. Nor did the OP say that s/he has more experience than every
foreigner.

On another point though, I'm interested to know why it is that the OP thinks that s/he has "more
experience and language abilities with real locals than most foreigners in China"? What do you
assume most foreigners in China are doing here?

Just about anywhere I ever go I have encounters with fellow Westerners who speak with the
assumption that they are: more intimate with the local area/ have travelled more/ are more 'hard
core'/ have more of the inside scoop/ have more local friends ...(list goes on)... than 'most
other foreigners' . More often than not, 'most other foreigners' are pretty much just like them.

Despite what our mothers may have told us, we're not special.

Yonita












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