Chinese Mandarin - Studying Chinese when and where you want -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Studying Chinese when and where you want
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waren1977 -

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classes and multi-media center and provides its students with a personalized course with a

regular follow-up assessment. Great Wall Chinese makes it possible to learn Chinese at any

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1.one native Chinese teacher with four students
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Living and communication course：
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more information you can find in the http://www.greatwallchinese.cn
if you want make a free trial lesson you can contact with

Jason Wang
mail:jason.wang@greatwallchinese.cn
Tel:+86-10 6530 8111-112
Mobile:86+136 9355 5396



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Chinese Character - Can you tell me..? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Can you tell me..?
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ebonyrose666 -

Hi,
New here =]

Just wondering whether anyone could tell me the meaning of the following chinese symbols. Thanks.





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studentyoung -

迷惘：a mental state characterized by a lack of clear and orderly thought and behavior

别死于迷惘：Don’t die in (mental) confusion.

Thanks!










ebonyrose666 -

thanks, I was told it meant Don't die wondering, which I guess means the same sort of thing doesnt
it???? xx










Lu -

Well, sort of the same.
'Don't die wondering': don't die while being in the action of wondering
别死于迷惘': don't die while being in a state of confusion
I guess the English version you want is a bit more active than the Chinese version you got. If
it's for a tattoo, you might want to look a bit further to find a better way of saying what you
want, as they are forever.












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Chinese Online Class - I wanna find a penpal to teach me chinese... >.< -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
I wanna find a penpal to teach me chinese... >.<
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gemini_gal -

Hello... im desperate now. i cant seem to find a partner to exchange language. Anyone out there
wanna teach me chinese? In exchange i can teach indonesian or english... (though im sure everyone
can speak english well here)
you can contact me here g3m1n1_g4l@yahoo.com
oh yeah, in the subject, pliz write that you got my email address from -Mandarin School in China.
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Learning Chinese - China Telecom/Netcom Region Question - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
China Telecom/Netcom Region Question
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pandaxiongmao -

In short, no, you could not connect to China Netcom in a China-Telecom-connected Internet Cafe.

I think you might be confused about the fact that China Netcom and China Telecom provide both the
physical connection AND act as the ISP for their customers. When I was in Japan, I could pay one
company for my physical connection, but use another company as my ISP over that physical
connection.

At Hainan University, the dorms have wires for both China Netcom and for China Telecom - two
separate plates on the wall. I actually tried connecting my DSL modem to the China Telecom jack
using my China Netcom account information, but it did not work. It never got any response. There
is apparently no agreement for the other company's ISP to be available if you don't also pay them
for the physical connection.

Thus, if you went to an Internet cafe that had China Telecom, you would be on China Telecom's
network. Assuming that you could physically connect your or use wireless, you would be connecting
to the Internet cafe's network. That network would then have a router that connects to China
Telecom. However, the Internet cafe's router will likely be able to tell that your computer does
not have the Internet Cafe's billing/monitoring software, so it will not give you an IP address.
If you cannot go online, it will have nothing to do with you having or not having your own China
Telecom or China Netcom account.



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ironfrost -



Quote:



Quote:

If Netcom focuses on the North, and Telecom in the South, and signed a thing to not intrude others
"turf"... how come you can still find netcom services in the southern parts of china (hubei,
sichuan, hunan, fujian, etc)

Just wondering~

Could be any number of reasons. I'm not sure if they're pulling out of each others territory, or
just agreed not to expand any further

They agreed not to sign up any new phone or fixed-line broadband users, but they can still keep
existing services and offer other services like IPTV or WiMAX.










CThomson -



Quote:

Am I able to make 电信 faster somehow?

Just saw this at http://www.thatsbj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10100:


Are you experiencing slow internet speed in bj?... if you're signed on with china telecom, now you
can call them and upgrade over the phone...

Orginal Speed= 512kbps for CNY99/month

New Upgrade Option= 1mbps for CNY129/month

New Upgrade Option= 2mbps for CNY199/month












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Chinese School - I would like some non-Mandarin Chinese slang translations-please help - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
I would like some non-Mandarin Chinese slang translations-please help
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delloy -

tough female .

se pei ..sounds kind of like 色 佩 in madarin but much softer



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Mavericker -

Reply to Grimacekid and Delloy:

Hello delloy-thank you for your help and your response.

Is there a male equivalent of a "se pei"?
What is the Shanghainese word for boy?

Hello Grimacekid:

Someone told me "女強人" is a Cantonese slang for "Strong female".

Have you come up with any other terms yet? Please let me know.










Mavericker -

Hello delloy and everyone else. Thank you delloy for your responses.

How do say "guy" in Shanghainese? There's an online Shanghainese glossary online but it's not very
comprehensive.

Do you know any terms that mean "tough guy" in Shanghainese slang?
A guy prone to fighting?
A physically strong male?

Please let me know. Thank you.










WILL ZHOU -

HELLO
女强人　is not only have strong body,also have talent and money.
tough guy" in Shanghainese slang is bad man,means is A guy prone to fighting and
A physically strong male,as same as your.
i want to look for partner to improve my english,are you native english sepaker?
i can help you study chinese,you should help me study english.
msn:zjm830
@
hotmail
.
com










Mavericker -

Hello, Will Zhou-thank you for responding.

I would like to add I'm also interested in Hokkien slang translations including, Taiwanese Hokkien.

Can someone please tell me how you would say "lone wolf" (noun) in Taiwanese?










Mavericker -

Hello. Is 假小子 a Shanghainese term for Tomboy?










Mavericker -

Hello-how do you say "dragon" in Shanghainese?










Mavericker -

Hello Will Zhou-can I still please e-mail you?

Is there anyone else here who can help me out with Shanghainese?










Mavericker -

Hi-I'd like some help with Taiwanese Hokkien street, college and youth slang-it's for a project
I'm working on.

What are Taiwanese Hokkien slang terms for:

tough guy
tough girl
tough woman
cool girl
cool guy
guy prone to fighting
girl prone to fighting
woman prone to fighting
powerfully-built male
powerfully-built female
gangster
punk
troublemaker
delinquent boy
delinquent girl
wild boy
wild girl
wild guy
wild woman
strong guy
strong girl
strong woman

Please let me know and please list as many Taiwanese Hokkien slang terms and expressions for each
term as possible.










Mavericker -

Hi. I am still interested in Taiwanese Hokkien translations. I would like to know how do you say
the following words in Taiwanese?:

champion
knight
advocate

Please let me know. Thank you.












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Study Chinese - 《后来》刘若英 -

> Chinese Culture > Music
《后来》刘若英
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Koneko -

Original Japanese version

Chinese cover version

Which is better?

I like them both.

K.



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thph2006 -

Sorry if this is a dumb and slightly off-topic question: Is there a way to download the Chinese
one to use offline? I love the way it highlights the characters as the song plays. It would make a
great learning tool (for me anyway). Also, do you know of any other downloadable material with the
characters highlighted karaoke style like that?

Thanks! Tom










lokki -

You can download from youtube with the help of www.mediapirate.org. And if you install Firefox
there is a plugin available to automate the process.












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HSK - to buy a cellphone in beijing.. - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
to buy a cellphone in beijing..
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Jamoldo -

If you're the bargaining type like me and patient, I would go to Nuren Jie to the "2nd hand"
market. Name brands used/stolen (many new like mine) sold at 20-60% discount. My Motorola was new
(probably off the back of the truck), and I got it for 40% discount. Sime cards can be purchased
there too, or at any newsstand for as little as 30 kuai.

caution, some phones are fake, or have replaced parts so it's essential to investigate them (ie,
make sample phone calls, press the buttons, make sure things like the camera work etc).

cheers.



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Dani_man -

Hey Jamoldo

Where's that NuRenJie?

is that in chaoyang?
how to get there?










Jamoldo -

Yeah its in Chaoyang near the new embassy district (where they are building the new US embassy,
and I think the Korean and Japanese Embassies are near there too). It's past the Lufthansa Center
and Kempinski Hotel. Tell any taxi driver, Nuren Jie (it's acually a Bar Street) and they'll take
you there. Then just ask anyone around on the bar street where to get mobile phones and they will
point it to you.

Once you enter the bar street you have to go 100-300 meters and there will be a indoor market on
your right side. Walk inside, take the escalator on the right upstairs and tada, you're there..

Be sure to pick some target phones, have a fixed priced set in mind (one you won't breach), and
then ask around for prices of your target phones, open the backs of them, push buttons, etc, check
for markings to see what's consistent, and then once you've decided which kind of phone you want,
bargain away at numerous stalls for a good price. It took me four hours but I got nearly the true
price, a real phone and I was happy. Good luck. PM me if you want my blog address where I talk
about the whole experience in detail. Cheers.










kmogg -

So what should the first card with the number cost these days? Is 100 the going rate for the all
CHina card? Or is the Beijing local one less.
I want a card that will work throughout China and Hong Kong.

Kevin












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Learn mandarin - Chinese practise in Beijing -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Chinese practise in Beijing
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johnmck -

In a couple of months time I am planning to go to Beijing on a business trip. I'm currently
negotiating with my boss to get them to pay for me to go out five days early so that I can
practise my Chinese (if I stay the Saturday night the reduction in the airfare should pay for the
extra nights in the hotel). Currently I know about 1000 words and rarely get a chance to speak
Chinese (my spoken Chinese is poor).

I want to start practising my Chinese immediately upon arrival and get as much Chinese practise in
over the 4-5 days before I visit my customer (my customer can speak English so I do not have to go
from beginner to business Chinese in 5 days ). I do not want to spend the five days just walking
around Beijing looking at all the sites and only using Chinese to order food. What is the best way
to practise my Chinese in Beijing?



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Shadowdh -

Walking around Beijing looking at all the sites and ordering food... sorry couldnt resist... I
found that by just walking through the parks people were ok speaking with me and I could get alot
of practice in asking questions (you know the basic ones... whats that, how do you say this... and
point at something)... ordering food was another good way to practice as you can point at the
pictures and again ask how do you say... also go to the markets, I found that after the initial
hard sell tactic some of the stall keepers were happy enough to chat to you and help out...










calibre2001 -

Make new friends...mandarin speaking only friends !










roddy -

If you just want to walk around speaking to random people, try parks like Shadowdh suggests -
especially early in the morning when you get all the old folks out doing their morning exercises /
singing / etc. Give 'em a smile and before you know it you'll be getting more questions than you
know what to do with. University campuses also, although there's a much higher chance of running
into people that want to speak English. Sit around with a Chinese textbook, look friendly and ask
random passers by if they can just show you how to pronounce this character here. Try also taking
taxis round and round the ring roads.

Don't be surprised if you attract a small crowd.

Roddy










onebir -

If you only have 5 days, it's probably worth hiring a 1-1 tutor - & probably worth getting one via
a school, so that you get a bit of variety &/can change easily if you need to.

Chatting with people is great as a longer term strategy, but over a few days an experienced tutor
is probably worth it. Most people won't try to correct your pronounciation or grammar, guess the
word that's on the tip of your tongue, or help you eke out sentences that are on the edge of your
abilities - a good tutor will do this & can help you make rapid progress.

Taipei language institute (which has 2 branches in Beijing) is specifically set up for this & has
good materials, but it's expensive. There are other schools that are cheaper, but their teachers
are probably less experienced teaching 1-1. (There could be exceptions, so it might be worth
asking if you decide to go down the tutor route.)










wrbt -

Make sure you have your luggage and wander near big tourist areas looking somewhat lost... in no
time you'll have two young people approach and you can practice Chinese at their traditional style
tea ceremony or art gallery.



Actually try going to sit at a cafe with locals (if you can stand the smoke) they'll be curious
and if you make the first move I'm thinking you'll have some conversation practice in no time.










wrbt -

Also - We had some great talky talks with hotel staff, specifically the ones standing out front
bored after main dinner hour has passed.










johnmck -

Thank you all for your answers. It looks like getting practise should be a lot easier than I had
thought. I guess I will not have the same problem as when I moved to France, everyone was very
helpful and kept answering me in English










kudra -

I'm not affiliated with it, but you might find out if the 1-month Chinese school would customize a
5 day intensive course for you. Program directors, if you're listening, that might be a good niche
for people on business trips like that.










roddy -

Pretty much any Chinese school will customize a course for you if you offer them cash.

Another idea - temples. They always have a few folk sitting around to make sure people don't take
photos where they aren't meant to, or set fire to stuff with their incense, and they're generally
bored and happy to chat.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Putonghua-ization or Cantonization in Guangdong? - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Putonghua-ization or Cantonization in Guangdong?
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Koneko -

Mark Yong,

Blimey, are you my long-lost brother?
We're both are Hakka, Malaysian-born Chinese!

So does your accent really sound Malaysian Chinese?
Hmm... Mine is but I can change easily to blend into Northerner's accent.
A tedious camouflage for my tongue though...

K.



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Koneko -

I came across this interesting article on "Malaysian Chinese? Chinese Malaysian?".
Looks like it's politically incorrect to address ourselves, Malaysian Chinese, Mark Yong.

But I was taught so, even at my Chinese primary to call ourselves 马来西亚华裔 not
华裔马来西亚人.

Accordingly, I still have "immigrant mentality"! Ha ha...

K.










Mark Yong -



Quote:

Koneko wrote: So does your accent really sound Malaysian Chinese?

I assume you are referring to my spoken Cantonese. Well, it really depends on what you define as a
"Malaysian Chinese" accent. There are several possibilities:
1. As many Cantonese speakers in Malaysia are not of Cantonese-origin, many speaking mainly the
閩 Min dialects (Hokkien, Teochew) at home, they end up with distorted tones for the
pronunciation of certain words, and are also unaccustomed to the Cantonese dialect's 'long vowels'
(e.g. the distinction between 'jan' 鎮 and 'jaan' 讚, both having the same tone).
2. Some 'pure' Cantonese speakers in Malaysia are a little over-zealous in their attempt to make
their Cantonese sound exactly like Hong Kong Cantonese, even to the extent of adopting the Hong
Kong intonations and vocabulary.

For me, I adopt the middle road. While I make a conscious attempt to ensure that my pronunciation
and tone is 100% correct, I make no attempt to "Hong Kong-ise" it. For instance, I will not refer
to 'police station' as 'mata-liu' the way many Malaysians do, but neither will I adopt the Hong
Kong terminology 'ch'aai gun' 差館, either. I stick to 'ging-chaat-guk' 警察局. And where
Hong Kong Cantonese tend to drop the ng- beginnings (e.g. 我 becomes 'or'), I stick to 'ngor'.

As for my spoken Mandarin, it is characteristically Southern in accent. Like most "Southerners", I
cannot distinguish the zh-/z- and ch-/c- beginnings, my sh-/s- beginnings are not
well-distinguished, nor is my distinction between tone 1 (high flat) and tone 4 (high falling)
consistent. Vocabulary-wise, I tend not to use characteristically-Northern words, e.g. I prefer
很好 to 蠻好.

And I am darn proud of my Southern identity!










Ian_Lee -



Quote:

but neither will I adopt the Hong Kong terminology 'ch'aai gun' 差館, either. I stick to
'ging-chaat-guk' 警察局.

差館 is not a Hong Kong Cantonese terminology. It is a term that Hong Kong inherited from Song
Dynasty 1,000 years ago.

Let's hear what Mainland bigmouth 王朔 said about 差館:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/4a49177c010008kf

王朔：有一种说法，因为他里头好多宋朝的文言，你比如他管警察叫差人，�
��差馆。

Other terms like 银纸 which people in Hong Kong commonly use is also a term inherited from Song
Dynasty.










Mark Yong -



Quote:

Ian_Lee wrote: 差館 is not a Hong Kong Cantonese terminology. It is a term that Hong Kong
inherited from Song Dynasty 1,000 years ago.

Oh, dear... that was a bad mistake on my part.

In answer to the original question of this thread, I guess this is an example of
"putonghua-isation" of the Cantonese dialect (I suppose 警察局 is a modern Mandarin
concoction). And ironically, 差館 may actually be a more 'authentic' term.

In general, Cantonese has been much more conservative than Mandarin, having retained the use of
many basic terminologies that have now become literal in Mandarin. Some examples I can think of
are 食 (eat, Mandarin uses 吃), 飲 (drink, Mandarin uses 喝), 面 (face, Mandarin uses 臉),
行 (walk, Mandarin uses 走).

My rebellious streak often prompts me to use these now-archaic terminologies whenever I correspond
with my mainland colleagues, either via e-mail or instant messaging, e.g. I would often write
飲酒 instead of 喝酒, 不必 instead of 不用, 無 in place of 沒 and 勿 in place of 別
wherever possible.

The effect of the Mandarin-isation of Cantonese seems more apparent in modern terminologies coined
over the last century for technological, commercial and political usage. With Hong Kong retaining
Cantonese as the lingua franca, while keeping in pace with the development of these modern
terminologies, the Cantonese dialect has managed to remain a living language. Regretfully, the
same cannot be said for many of the other dialects, where speakers would generally code-switch to
the Mandarin pronunciation of such modern terminologies in speech.










atitarev -



Quote:

...My rebellious streak often prompts me to use these now-archaic terminologies whenever I
correspond with my mainland colleagues, either via e-mail or instant messaging, e.g. I would often
write 飲酒 instead of 喝酒, 不必 instead of 不用, 無 in place of 沒 and 勿 in place of
別 wherever possible...

I heard feedback from my colleagues from mainland China. They say, HKers and Taiwanese can't write
in modern Chinese but we still understand what they write. For them it's harder to understand us,
so we sometimes please them by writing it the old way.










Mark Yong -



Quote:

atitarev wrote: I heard feedback from my colleagues from mainland China. They say, HKers and
Taiwanese can't write in modern Chinese but we still understand what they write. For them it's
harder to understand us, so we sometimes please them by writing it the old way.

Putting aside colloquial written Cantonese in Hong Kong, I had the impression that formal written
Chinese in Hong Kong is based on the grammar of Standard Mandarin. At least, that is what I gather
from the handful of Hong Kong-based magazine articles that I have read in the past. Unless what
you mean is that there are less elements of Beijing influence in the style of writing and the
words used.

On the subject of written Chinese in Taiwan, I gather that while the grammar is also generally
based on modern Mandarin, the writing style has much more elements of the classical language
(grammar and vocabulary) compared to written modern Mandarin on the mainland.










Mugi -



Quote:

Mark Yong wrote: Vocabulary-wise, I tend not to use characteristically-Northern words, e.g. I
prefer 很好 to 蠻好.

Something is not quite right here - did you mean to say that you "tend to use..."? Or perhaps you
"prefer 蠻好 to 很好"?
很好 is standard Mandarin, where as 蠻好 is southern (at least from a northern perspective).
蠻好 is typically used by Taiwanese and native 呉 speakers when speaking Mandarin. I've
personally never heard 蠻好 north of the Yangtze, except from immigrants from the south. 很 is
distinctly Mandarin (in fact I don't know of a cognate in any other dialect group).










atitarev -

I think it's just a matter of what is thought to be acceptable by the majority. Like in any
language - it may not be standard, not traditional, whatever but it's used by majority and it
becomes standard.



Quote:

I had the impression that
written Chinese in Hong Kong is based on the grammar of Standard Mandarin.

I am aware that Hong Kong written form is based on standard Mandarin but it's somewhat different
still. This version of Mandarin may be more standard and better but again, the majority uses a
different standard.

From the learners' practical point of view, which style is best to learn or teach? The one that is
used by majority of companies in China.

So, even Taiwan is affected. Mainland words are well-known now in Taiwan and sometimes replace the
words used before, although the influence may not be as big as in Guangdong or Hong Kong. I talked
to young guys from Taiwan, they were actually treating this as a positive trend.

In my opinion, varieties of standard Mandarin is OK but they probably should be merged and
differences be treated as synonyms or alternatives, except for cases where it should be just one
case, e.g. 新西兰 / 新西蘭 Xīnxīlán or 纽西兰 / 紐西蘭 Niǔxīlán, which version
to use must be agreed on. I am surprised it hasn't become a legal issue yet. In law, documents
should be precised, so are Hong Kong and PRC's documents mutually accepted?










Jive Turkey -



Quote:

I heard feedback from my colleagues from mainland China. They say, HKers and Taiwanese can't write
in modern Chinese but we still understand what they write. For them it's harder to understand us,
so we sometimes please them by writing it the old way.

What a crock, especially regarding Taiwanese people. Sure, a good number of HKers seem to have
some trouble writing good SMC since they don't really know its corresponding spoken language, but
to say that HKers can't write SMC is a wack generalization. I suspect your mainland colleagues are
just being snobs. Keep in mind that many Chinese see the use of SMC and PTH as elements of
modernization. To them, saying that people from a certain place can't write SMC or speak PTH
(regardless of whether it is true or not)=that place is a backward shithole. By my standards, some
places or practices in Taiwan or HK are backward, but hardly so when compared to the mainland.


Quote:

In my opinion, varieties of standard Mandarin is OK but they probably should be merged and
differences be treated as synonyms or alternatives, except for cases where it should be just one
case, e.g. 新西兰 / 新西蘭 Xīnxīlán or 纽西兰 / 紐西蘭 Niǔxīlán, which version
to use must be agreed on. I am surprised it hasn't become a legal issue yet. In law, documents
should be precised, so are Hong Kong and PRC's documents mutually accepted?

Why in the world would it be a legal issue? Nobody gets confused if you use one or the other. Why
try to control something that not only defies attempts to control it but also does not need to be
controlled?












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Learning Mandarin - Characters? - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Characters?
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taaba -

I thought 香蕉人 is used for non-Chinese born Chinese. Once I had this discussion with our
lecturer once and she was saying about how some people look Chinese on the surface (their
appearance and the way they look) and within they are so far away from being real Chinese, and the
Culture, feelings and way of thinking is far from a Chinese person. (like Banana Yellow on the
outside, White in the inside)!.



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laowai1980 -

Banana man, hehe, not insulting at all, I can do with that
That's a reference to tribes who don't have an alphabet right? (Just saw a post above about
non-Chinese born Chinese and trying to check the origin).










kaykaybobay -

Hello-

Well as my first post I must say I find the pinyin very difficult, it kinda of joggles my brain
even trying to read it. I have been learning mandarin for a year and a couple of monthes now. My
tutor who is from Taiwan had me using the John Defrancis books wich are pretty good. At first I
was praticing writing everyday but with new job I just dotn have the time, though I do more so
now. I would say I have learned all the vocabulary from the beginner Defrancis book by just pure
memorization. I think memorizing the characters has maybe even helped my brain! I havent used the
pinyin at all in my studies so far. Just seemed like I had to learn an extra language or
something. I just memorized a lesson of vocab a week while riding on the bus. So far I can recall
all the vocab. I would say then Pinyin is good for some, just maybe not everyone.










[欧阳江] -

You don't need to know the characters to be able to speak Chinese.










calibre2001 -

It's a term used to label 'westernised' ethnic chinese people. 'East' and 'West' are culturally
different (morales, philosophy etc), hence the label. However the inability to speak Chinese (or
any of its dialects) supercedes the above 'condition' in reality. So, if a chinese behaves
'Eastern' but is unable to speak chinese, he/she is a banana. Strangely the term does not apply to
the converse in real life.

In the US, 'westernised' Filipino-Americans are apparently labelled 'coconuts'. In India, it's
'Hamburger Kid'.










Koneko -



Quote:


Originally Posted by taaba

I thought 香蕉人 is used for non-Chinese born Chinese.


The term is actually for ethnic Chinese who does not how to speak, write, understand his native
language but educated in English. Just like the banana that has yellow "skin" (Outside;
appearance) but with white "flesh" (Inside; actual self).

K.










Pravit -

There have already been plenty of opinions posted about this, just wanted to add my thoughts:

When I was beginning to learn Chinese, I too skipped the characters, assuming that I would learn
much more quickly. I was able to pick up basic vocabulary and sentence structure, but soon later I
got bogged down because I couldn't remember any new words - I thought all the words sounded the
same! However, this problem went away when I began to learn characters - I think having the
characters to "anchor" a particular word to helps very much. As an example, now I think of "dan4"
the egg, the dawn, and "but" as entirely different words, but it's the kind of thing I would be
confused about when I didn't know characters.










wrbt -



Quote:

I personally think being able to read Hanzi adds a new dimension into the whole learning process

Yup! There will be far more resources for you out there if you learn the characters, from the
structured (many textbooks don't use pinyin past beginner levels) to the casual like videos with
transcript etc.

It seems really hard at first but I found once I got past about 1,000 it got a lot easier because
more and more of the new words I already knew part or all of the character components, plus often
able to guess how new characters will sound by their appearance thus easier to look up by pinyin.










Czech Cara -

I agree with wrbt, learning Chinese without characters is like an illiterate studying medicine.
After certain period it actually starts hepling you，when you receive and absorb the language by
more channels, it gets under your skin faster. How will you remember/comprehend words like
金字塔 ， 丁字路口， 歪 = 不正， or understand chopsticks were first made of bamboo
without 筷子？ Moreover, when I invited my dad to China I was proud to read the huge sign on
the entrance to the Forbidden city for him. It is hard, but fun really too.












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Chinese Class - Eeny, meeny, miny, moe. -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.
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Koneko -

Dear All,

What is the Mandarin equivalent of the above phrase, "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe", a children counting
ryhme used for selection?

I have heard of the Hokkien version before, something like, "Di di duo tiap nor wei di tiap. Di di
duo tiap di duo tiap" I don't even know how to write this out in Chinese!

Thanks!
K.



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againstwind -

小锅炒豆，越炒越臭，臭了扔房后．房后有条狗，被狗咬一口


which one is counted at 口, which one will be selected.

but I guess there are more versions in China.Different versions exist at different areas.










Koneko -



Quote:

小锅炒豆，越炒越臭，臭了扔房后．房后有条狗，被狗咬一口

Thanks!
So do you reckon that's the Beijing version?










againstwind -

emm, I heard it from my friends from North China but not sure if it's Beijing version.

In fact, I also know the version from my hometown in the Southwest China, BUT I can merely speak
it but do not know how to write. I reckon they're some syllables without meanings.










Koneko -

Ha ha... Precisely! Just like the Hokkien version above. I don't even know how to write it down -
it's just some saying passed down from the old generation, I think.










Quest -

Cantonese: 点指兵兵点兵兵，点着谁人做大兵。
I used to knwo mroe when I was a kid... forgotten most of them... good times.










Koneko -

Thanks Quest!

You know what?
I just remember this in Cantonese as well!
It's something like 点虫虫，虫虫飞... ...
Does it ring any bell to you?!

K.










Quest -

点虫虫，虫虫飞，飞到荔枝基 is not minimo...










elina -

I heard this:
泥锅，泥碗，你滚蛋
which one is counted at 蛋, which one will be removed.










chenpv -

A little bit off topic. How is this 'Eeny, meeny, miney, moe' working? Alphabetically? Syllably?
Or word by word? I just can't imagine how this rhyme works when a group has to select one for the
good or the bad......












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Pnyin - I NEED a recipe for Chinese Cream Cake w/ Fruits!! -

> Chinese Culture > Food
I NEED a recipe for Chinese Cream Cake w/ Fruits!!
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tinas -

I'm looking for a recipe for chinese cream cakes. The one they use for birthdays and are sold in
chinese bakeries. It is the very light cake accented with fresh fruit (with peaches, kiwi, melon &
strawberries) and whipped cream. I have scoured the net and have found NO recipes that sound like
the cake I want to make, and have only found postings by other people looking for the same
recipe!! Our family usually goes to ChinaTown in Boston when we buy them, but I want to learn to
make my own so we can save on trips to the city...In addition, the Chinese basker clain little
English and don't want to share the recipe...

Do you know how to make these cakes? These are NOT the steamed sponged cakes. I REPEAT, this is
NOT the steamed sponge cake. I need a recipe for this baked cake and the the cream they use...I
have heard the cream is not really cream but some kind of fake substitute..But so yummy anyway!! I
included a link to a picture of one below....

Please help with a full recipe!!! This pursuit has been akin to looking for the holy grail!

- TINA (Below is a pic)





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purplemama -

Hi,

Were you ever able to find a recipe? I have been looking for one myself and came across these two.
I haven't tried them out yet, so I don't know how they taste. They're pretty similar in
ingredients.

CHINESE SPONGE CAKE
(Gai Don Go)

1 1/2 c. cake flour, sifted
9 eggs, separated
1/2 tsp. cream of tartar
1/2 tsp. baking powder
1 c. sugar
1/2 c. water
1/4 c. oil
1 tsp. vanilla

Beat egg whites until slightly foamy. Add 1/2 teaspoon cream of
tartar. Beat again till stiff. Sift together flour, baking powder
and sugar. Add to egg yolks; add water, oil and vanilla and beat
until creamy. Pour the mixture over egg whites gently and fold
until well-blended.

If using a 9 x 13 pan, bake at 350 degrees for about 20 minutes.
If using a tube pan, bake 35-40 minutes, inverting tube pan upside
down while cooling.

Serve with fruit topping and whipped cream.

Chinese sponge cake

1 c Softasilk flour (cake flour)
1 c sugar
6 eggs, separated
1 ts vanilla
1/4 c cold water
1/2 ts salt
1/2 ts cream of tartar
Preheat oven to 325. Beat egg yolk and sugar till creamy. Stir in vanilla. Add flour and water
alternately till mixed well. In a spearate bowl, beat egg white till foamy. Add salt and cream of
tartar. Beat until stiff peak. Fold egg white into batter in batches. Pour into ungreased angel
food cake pan. Bake until toothpick comes out clean, about 50 minutes. Turn upside-down to cool.
Because there's no oil in the cake, it does stick to the pan. Just use a knife to careful go
around the pan. It helps if you use a pan that has a removable bottom.


Hope that helps! LMK how they turn out, if you do get around to baking one.

Tiphanie










tinas -

thanks! I never did come across a comparable recipe..I always thought the (Gai Don Go)
cake was the steamed version which is not what I was looking for..It's amazing how such a simple
cake recipe has managed to be eluded! They are so popular among other asian cultures here but no
one knows how they are made..If it turrns out..I will be the hi of the town..thanks again!










Jennifer Liu -

Did you find the recipe you were looking for? How did the two posted recipes workout? I am looking
for the same recipes myself.










Smithy -

I tried the first recipe and it turned out just as it should be! Yummy! Thanks for sharing the
recipes, Tiph!










floatingmoon -

Please feel free to upload the photo next time. We cannot eat nor smell it, but we can still see
it.












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Chinese Tutor - cantonese pronunciation help -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
cantonese pronunciation help
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goldie -

麟暖啸二斑日
how do you pronounce the above in cantonese? i know it doesn't mean anything, but it's a clue to a
treasure hunt my friends are doing and i can't help them, i told them the pronunciation in
mandarin and the individual meanings of the characters, but it's not helping. i thought the
cantonese pronunciation might help...




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skylee -

goldie, take a look at this thread which might help ->
http://www. /showthread.php?t=11749










goldie -

thanks skylee! i'll pass that on to my friends. i wonder if they posted the original question,
it's been 6 months and they still haven't worked it out. i guess it doens't have much to do about
the characters...and nothing to do with the pronunciation either...strange.










paulwan -

In Cantonese:
麟loan4 rhymes with the English "Joan"
暖luen3 or nuen3 rhymes with 算 suen3
啸siu rhymes with the English "you"
二yee6
斑baan
日yat6 same as the Cantonese 一 yat

e.& o.e.












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HSK Exam - Alternative Country/ City names in Chinese - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Alternative Country/ City names in Chinese
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jukebox -

I have to point out that...
Though 大和 and 倭 share the same pronunciation in Japanese, 倭 in Chinese is a derogatory
word for Japan/Japanese.



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Koneko -

... And 支那 in Japanese is a derogatory phrase for China.

K.










Koneko -

花旗国 = USA

K.










Koneko -

Pardon my ignorance!
I just realised 燕京 was Beijing's old name...

燕京 = Old Beijing

K.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Steve Kaufmann - How good is he? - Page 6 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?
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L-F-J -

well, its kind of true. i know a korean guy with an american wife and children who dont speak
korean. so most of his life in america is spent speaking english except with the occasional korean
visit. but he never studies english. he's been living here for nearly 30 years and his english is
terrible. its very difficult to understand him. although he understands everything. he cant talk
hardly at all.

now along side my best friend learning chinese. he spent time learning characters because he liked
them and then learned phrases and words and spoke to people in chinese a lot. i never spoke to
anyone. mostly because i was shy. but i also spent a lot of time studying the language, listening,
and reading. over the course of years i've found that i am much more able to understand people
when they speak to us and am more able to speak back to them with somewhat non-beginner chinese
anymore. while this guy still says the same things all the time and has poor grammar. because he
doesnt study or listen. he just speaks to people....

i agree, you cant really learn that way mainly because half the dialogue is non-native response
and accent from yourself. you never hear a fully native dialogue. so what can you learn?

p.s. i'm still waiting for that chinese version of the linguist system. where is steve anyway?



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L-F-J -

i guess he lied...










flameproof -

Steves blog is still active and his new website (lingq or so) has a soft opening too.










L-F-J -

do you know if when lingq launches it will provide a mandarin version?










koreth -

In theory I like the "read and listen a lot" technique. In practice it's not so easy to do,
especially on the reading side. I've had a difficult time finding interesting reading materials
that are mostly comprehensible. By "mostly comprehensible" I mean that it's possible to read them
and get the gist of what they mean, even if there are some new words or unfamiliar sentence
patterns. Challenging enough to learn something, but not so challenging that I'll toss them away
in frustration.

Textbooks are good on the "comprehensible" side but often not so great on the "interesting" side,
especially for those of us who aren't full-time college students interested in discussions of life
in dormitories. Newspapers -- at least, all the ones I've found in my area so far -- are much more
interesting, but most of the time I can't get through a paragraph without consulting a dictionary
ten times, pushing the frustration level high enough that I rarely make it to the end of anything
but a short article. (My vocabulary is low intermediate level; I know about 1600 characters.)

And of course Chinese has the "I've heard this word spoken and know what it means, but have no
clue how it's written" problem. If you pick up vocabulary in conversation, it'll still send you
back to the dictionary the first time you encounter it in writing unless you happen to know the
component characters from somewhere else. I think there's nothing to be done about that but
memorize more characters, but it does IMO contribute in a big way to the difficulty of finding
good intermediate-level reading material.

"The Lady in the Painting" by Fred Fang-yu Wang is an example of the kind of thing I'd love to see
more of at various levels. It's a folk tale retold using only 300 basic characters (plus a very
small number of others that are introduced with English definitions and pinyin along the way).
There were still new words to learn when I read it, but to me at least, it's MUCH less frustrating
to encounter a new word made up of characters I already know than to run into a completely
unfamiliar glyph or two in every sentence. As far as I can tell, that book is nearly unique.

Children's books are kind of hit-and-miss; the very lowest level ones seem to be aimed at parents
reading to their kids, so are nearly as full of unfamiliar characters as a newspaper article is.
The bilingual series by 大山 is a good example. Even now, when my study materials are second-
and third-year college texts, I still can't fully read most pages of those books. And of course as
an adult learner, they are not so high on the "interesting" scale anyway.

What do Chinese kids read when they're older than toddlers but younger than teenagers? What are
the Chinese equivalents of series like, say, Nancy Drew or the Secret Seven?

My girlfriend tells me that when she was growing up in Taiwan, she used to read a kids' edition of
her local newspaper that had regular news stories written using much simpler vocabulary than the
normal newspaper. Neither she nor I have ever seen such a newspaper in any of the Chinese
bookstores or supermarkets we've visited in northern California, though; apparently they just
don't get imported for whatever reason.

Steve or anyone else, what did you do about finding good reading materials when you were still
coming up to speed?










flameproof -



Quote:

do you know if when lingq launches it will provide a mandarin version?

No. But it looks like "other" languages (French, plus a few more) start soon, or have already a
soft opening. Steve said Chinese will "come some time later". I wouldn't be surprised if it's
2008....



Quote:

In theory I like the "read and listen a lot" technique. In practice it's not so easy to do,
especially on the reading side. I've had a difficult time finding interesting reading materials
that are mostly comprehensible.

I think there is very, very little adult reading material with limited number of different
characters. I gave up looking. I think you really have to start with primary children books.

I did suggest "Jiandan de Nanti", for Chinese it will be very easy, for beginners it's quite a
struggle. And struggle ain't good as it can lead easily to frustration.










gato -



Quote:

What do Chinese kids read when they're older than toddlers but younger than teenagers? What are
the Chinese equivalents of series like, say, Nancy Drew or the Secret Seven?

My girlfriend tells me that when she was growing up in Taiwan, she used to read a kids' edition of
her local newspaper that had regular news stories written using much simpler vocabulary than the
normal newspaper.

There used to be a few newspapers and magazines published in China designed for elementary school
kids. I'm not sure if they still exist. There are comic books and novels written to young people,
too, just like in other countries. You can browse through them on dangdang.com:
http://www.dangdang.com/book/index_m...en_11-14.shtml

As I wrote in an earlier thread:
http://www. /showth...tary#post71552
Mainland children are typically required to recognize 1600-1800 characters and write 800-1000 by
the end of second grade, recognize 2500 characters and write 2000 by the end of fourth.

Many second graders who are native Chinese speakers already have a fairly large spoken vocabulary,
that is, they already know lots of words. Once they learn 1800 characters, they'll be able to
recognize most words in a lower-level newspaper article.










wrbt -

Koreth -

I think if you look at textbooks that are targeted towards 3rd year college + you can find the
window of "mostly comprehensible" yet somewhat interesting that you seek. In my (granted limited)
experience books published outside of China around that level often have far more interesting
topics than the standard dorm life type topics covered in the more elementary ones...
overpopulation, pollution, abortion, divorce, abandonment of the elderly, inconsiderate bastards,
swindlers, and so forth.

Try looking at Cheng & Tsui website, some stuff off the top of my head that fits =

Shifting Tides
Beyond The Basics
Across the Straits

At the very least those intermediate textbooks will have lots of dialogues with vocabulary lists
and listening materials with native speakers to practice, and they don't tow the boring line on
topics.










wrbt -

I've uploaded a brief excerpt on Housing Reform in China from "Shifting Tides" as an example. The
book has audio CDs included, clear grammar points, and focuses mainly on current events and news
instead of dorm life type stuff of many college texts.










koreth -

That sounds like a good one to get. I have one book like that already, though as far as I know it
has no audio companion: "A New Text For a Modern China" (the one from 北京大学; there are two
books with that title.) It covers some of the same topics, which is nice since presumably there'll
be a lot of vocabulary overlap. Thanks!












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Chinese Tutor - Is the rythmic learning method better than traditional schools? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Is the rythmic learning method better than traditional schools?
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sthubbar -

Has anyone heard about the Bejing Future Development School?
http://www.ictc.net.cn/introduction-Eng.htm

I read an article about them in Time Out BJ. They profess to use a "Rythmic Language Teaching
Method". It all sounds good. Supposedly they focus on learning the most frequent words in context
as well as involve singing into the learning process.

I have talked to them on the phone and over the phone they seem a little disorganized. Was just
wondering if anyone had any experience her or thought.



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HSK Exam - ZDT wishlist :P - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT wishlist :P
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Luobot -

Tone changes:

Quote:

I think text to speech would do this

Question: How natural does it sound? If you're imitating it, you don't want to sound like a
monosyllable robot, or like something from a text-to-speech answering machine. If it’s something
that you wouldn’t mind sounding like in a job interview or dating situation, then fine.

Presently, if you listen to the example that I cited in ZDT, you'll notice that it isn't doing
tone changes at all. Bu4 Yao4 is Bu4 Yao4, not Bu2 Yao4. This is because these sounds are produced
as individual syllables spoken sequentially, rather than produced as one word.

Anyway, it would be great to have the freedom to link up any file of any type – voice, video,
whatever – which is what I’m suggesting.

This can coexist with the current or perhaps improved text-to-speech solution, as you suggest,
Chris willing.



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onebir -



Quote:

Question: How natural does it sound?

The free MS chinese voice isn't great, but it doesn't pronounce separate syllables separately, I
think it handles tone sandhi and some sentence intonation. There are better commercial voices
apparently (see MandarinBoy's thread)



Quote:

If you're imitating it

No one suggested imitating the computer. Text to speech would give the ability to generate audio
flashcards from text-only sources - which are more common than text + audio material - for
learning new words. People at/above about intermediate level will generally be able to pronounce
these, because they'll have already learned to pronounce the same syllables occurring in other
words...

If you have (much rarer) text+audio, sound files are the way to go for pronounciation purposes.
But creating sound files manually by editing audio is quite labour intensive. So people might like
to have the option of generating audio flash cards using text to speech even where they have audio.

So I agree it would be ideal to have functionality for both attaching sound files and text to
speech (perhaps with an override), which would suit different groups of users needs... (But this
would also involve several times more work for Chris I guess...)










Luobot -



Quote:

So I agree it would be ideal to have functionality for both attaching sound files and text to
speech ... which would suit different groups of users needs

So I guess we agree ... now, if only Chris agrees










bogleg -

I agree, I agree! =) I would probably say that (with no investigation) that attaching sounds to
entries would be a more likely feature for inclusion. I'm kind of doubtful that I would be able to
use a commercial text to speech product in open-source software. But i'll wait and see how
mandarinboy responds in his thread.

Chris










bogleg -

@flameproof

1: To make it start faster.

How long does the ZDT take to startup for you? On the computer I'm using at the moment, it takes
approximately 7 secs.

2: Import from Pleco

It's coming... slowly but surely. I'm working on a custom import function that I will make sure
supports Pleco.

3: can paste a group of characters into a folder (currently can only do one at a time)

You're talking about pasting into a category right? This should already be possible. You have to
put the characters on a separate line though. Let me know how you're trying to do it.

Chris










onebir -

@Luobot:
No harm done ;-)

@Chris:
The free MS chinese voice probably isn't adequate for listening comprehension/imitation, but I
thnk it's good enough it's fine for reading out words for memorization purposes (since you can
hear the syllables & tones, and it copes with tone sandhi). But I don't know if there are free
voices for Linux/Mac users...










Luobot -

Onebir -- Sorry
[I removed it from my original post because I misunderstood you, and therefore it was
inappropriate.]

Chris – I’m really excited about it!!! Thanks so much for agreeing!!!










bredmond812陈秉劲 -

maybe a link to Palm OS5 would be cool too. of course, it would need to use Big5 for traditional
and GB2312 for simplified, or there would need to be some way to convert it.










bogleg -

@bredmond812

Could you explain in more detail what you mean by "a link to Palm OS5"?










bredmond812陈秉劲 -

sure, i mean a way so that i can do the flashcards on Palm (whose operating system is OS 5) does
that make better sense?












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Chinese Speaking - Who said Beijing Sucks? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Who said Beijing Sucks?
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1on1Mandarin -

In response to the numerous posts about Beijing being a horrible place to learn the language and
live, I have to set the record straight:

1) The accents. I have lived in China for over 4 years now (all in Beijing), studied Chinese for
nearly 8 years and have travelled to many different cities in China for business. Generally
speaking, I would say that I have more experience and language abilities with interacting with
real locals in these areas than most foreigners in China. Of all the places that I have been, I
would say that Beijing is still the best suited for foreigners. While there are places in the
North East like Harbin and Dalian, where the people speak Putonghua, they still have accents, and
some, like Dalian even have their own dialect.

If people say that beijing people have heavy "er" accents, then they are correct. But to say that
EVERYONE in Beijing has a beijing accent, then I would have to say that most of these opinions are
based off of experience with cab drivers, older beijingers, store owners, etc. To be honest with
you, Beijing is the best place to learn Chinese because EVERYONE speaks standard Mandarin. You
don't have to deal with different dialects, which in many cases sound like a completely different
language! If you interact with educated people and professionals you will have no problem.
Obviously, if you spend all of your time is the taxis and alleys (Hutong), then you will encounter
difficulties.

Harbin has relatively standard Mandarin, but Harbin is like a very small run down town. The last
time I went there, about 1.5 years ago, they didn't even have a starbucks. Dalian, now, is a
little bit better on the modern aspect, but the locals pretty much speak have a psuedo-dialect
(half mandarin, half Dalianese).

You are going to find some great programs available in smaller cities like Harbin, Hangzhou,
Dalian, etc. But you will still have a more difficult time understanding the common local speaking
to you because virtually everywhere in China has their own dialect. You only have to deal with an
"er" accent in Beijing.

2) The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't? China is the most
populated country in the world!

3) Too many foreingers. This can also be a good thing. Let me put it like this: sometimes you need
some Americana. Having a large foreign network in the city you live in makes your transition much
more pleasant. You have loads of foreign food, activities, organizations, healthcare, schools,
music. Basically everything you would want in your home country you could probably find here in
Beijing. A great example is with all the Europeans and their cheese and wine, granted not the
greatest, but if you have the money you can find it. Sometimes I just want an american breakfast
so I just go to Grandma's Kitchen. I think you get my point. With exception for Shanghai, you're
gonna have very, very few options elsewhere.

4) Hard to get around. Use the subways.

5) Too expensive. Beijing can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. If you find the right
places rent can still be quite cheap. Now if you are comparing Beijing to less modern cities in
China, yes, Beijing is more expensive, but there are also more extra curricular benefits
available. This isn't Thailand, but it also isn't Tokyo. For a westerner, Beijing is still cheap.

6) Longterm development. Now if you are looking to stay in China for not only language but
possible employment, I cannot emphasize this enough. Contacts in China is everything! Beijing and
Shanghai are the two best places in China for that. In Shanghai, however, you have to deal with
Shanghainese, which is a completely different dialect like Cantonese. Beijing is full of not only
foreigners, but also most business in China has to go through Beijing somehow or another because
it is the capital; so if you look, you can find excellent Beijing contacts that can help you in
other places in China.

Generally speaking, Beijing is a very international city, that is very difficult to find almost
anywhere in the world. How international, you ask? Some cab companies are providing English
classes for their drivers so that they can provide better service for the upcoming Olympics. You
are not going to find a better place in China to study the language and to work on your longterm
development at the same time. Simply put, having the options available is always a plus. I don't
want to have to live in a place where it is virtually impossible to find a cup of coffee.

Now who said Beijing sucks?



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wannabeafreak -

I went to Beijing before and I think its a very dirty city. I prefer nice and clean Hong Kong.










gato -



Quote:

2) The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't? China is the most
populated country in the world!
4) Hard to get around. Use the subways.

I think people were referring to physical size, not population size. Number 2 and 4 go together.
The subway doesn't go to a lot of places.










roddy -

True, if you can't cope without Starbucks, easy access to a range of Western food, close proximity
to foreigners, international schools and hospitals and cheese and wine tastings, then Beijing is
probably your only option. Everybody else has a wider range of choices though.

Smaller cities are less viable long-term options due to a relative lack of long-term
opportunities, but for a six month to two year stay to study or work, they can be great. I spent a
year in that 'very small run down town' Harbin, and had a fantastic time - great people (and the
educated, professional people everywhere are capable of speaking standard Chinese), fantastic
eating, 'western' stuff available if necessary - just like any number of other cities. And a year
or two somewhere provincial will mean you both appreciate the amenities of a bigger city, and know
how easily you can manage without them.

Beijing doesn't suck - it might be easier to wind up spending all your money and time on doing
'foreign' stuff, which the majority of people on here aren't intending to do, but that's as much
to do with willpower as the city itself. However, the other options are hardly as bleak as you
paint them. Having spent two years in provincial cities (Wuxi, Harbin) and four in Beijing, I'd
query how much a succession of business trips would inform you about what it would be like to
spend a year there studying or working.










1on1Mandarin -

Roddy,

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that smaller (provincial) cities are inferior, nor am I
discounting their effectiveness for language learners. I am sure that many people, like yourself,
have wonderful experiences. It bothers me, however, when I hear people complaining about
"er"-factor and expenses in Beijing. In China, you're gonna have to either deal with accents or
deal with dialects; personally, I would prefer the former, which, quite honestly, is something you
will deal with anywhere. Students should understand, however, that there is probably more standard
putonghua opportunities in Beijing than any city in China, and the world for that matter.

To Gato: The geographical size of a city is generally determined by its population. #4. yes, the
subways don't go everywhere, but a combo of subways and cabs can get you to many places.










liuzhou -



Quote:

I would say that I have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals
in these areas than most foreigners in China.

Congratulations! Give yourself a medal.



Quote:

sometimes you need some Americana.

It might come to you as some surprise, but not all "foreigners" are American.










wushijiao -



Quote:

It might come to you as some surprise, but not all "foreigners" are American.

Aha, but not all Americana is consumed by Americans!










Qiuyue -



Quote:

The city is too big. Yes, Beijing is very big. But what city in China isn't?

There are plenty of them, plenty. You just have to go outside Beijing to discover them



Quote:

Contacts in China is everything! Beijing and Shanghai are the two best places in China for that.

Perhaps if you wanna work in Beijing or Shanghai, bur not so much if you wanna work in Jinan,
Guangdong, Ningbo or somewhere else. Then that´s where u need your contacts!



Quote:

True, if you can't cope without Starbucks, easy access to a range of Western food, close proximity
to foreigners, international schools and hospitals and cheese and wine tastings, then Beijing is
probably your only option

Certainly not your only option! Have u heard of Shanghai? Or Hangzhou? Or HK?










liuzhou -



Quote:

Beijing is the best place to learn Chinese because EVERYONE speaks standard Mandarin.



Quote:

Obviously, if you spend all of your time is the taxis and alleys (Hutong), then you will encounter
difficulties.

Isn't that somewhat contradictory or are you telling us not to mix with the lower classes?

But of course, you

Quote:

have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals in these areas than
most foreigners in China.

Sorry I'm too stupid and inexperienced to understand (despite having been here 10 years, living in
different places.)










yonitabonita -



Quote:

Isn't that somewhat contradictory or are you telling us not to mix with the lower classes?

But of course, you
Quote:
have more experience and language abilities with interacting with real locals in these areas than
most foreigners in China.

Sorry I'm too stupid and inexperienced to understand (despite having been here 10 years, living in
different places.)

Not really playing fair to put words in the OP's mouth. I can see no intention to make any sort of
comment on 'the lower classes'. Nor did the OP say that s/he has more experience than every
foreigner.

On another point though, I'm interested to know why it is that the OP thinks that s/he has "more
experience and language abilities with real locals than most foreigners in China"? What do you
assume most foreigners in China are doing here?

Just about anywhere I ever go I have encounters with fellow Westerners who speak with the
assumption that they are: more intimate with the local area/ have travelled more/ are more 'hard
core'/ have more of the inside scoop/ have more local friends ...(list goes on)... than 'most
other foreigners' . More often than not, 'most other foreigners' are pretty much just like them.

Despite what our mothers may have told us, we're not special.

Yonita












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